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Precisely. No amount of pumping from us locals who cherish the place can turn Mundane, MA or Mill City, MA into a place people really want to live.
I think people used to say this about Port City, MA a few decades ago (places like Salem, Gloucester, Newburyport) and they've definitely gone on to gentrify. Makes me hopeful about Mill City, MA if not Mundane, MA.
I’m not sure about Fall River but New Bedford would gentrify pretty quickly if it had sub-45 minute express rail service to Boston. It’s completely isolated and isn’t even part of the Boston MSA despite being only 45 miles out. The whaling era left the city with really good bones. New Bedford doesn’t have the critical mass of white collar professionals to drive the local economy and white collar professional jobs beyond what exists in flyover country are few and far between because the labor force is so unskilled. The metro Boston problem is transportation infrastructure. People can’t get to work so they are forced to compete for a very limited amount of housing stock. If you dramatically improve transportation infrastructure and get people out of their cars, you can extend the metro to 60+ miles out. A lot of Mundane, MA and Mill City, MA gentrifies.
I hear the narrative about how the prices are what they are because of what basically amounts to a captive workforce trapped by commute times, but I think it ignores a big part of the cost: desirability. The commute angle is taking an outside-looking-in perspective, thinking that by addressing the barriers the outsider perspective sees, things will change, but it ignores the insider-looking-out perspective. There's a lot of people who can afford Boston prices who also want to live in specific towns and neighborhoods due to their amenities or desirability.
If New Bedford became an easy commute tomorrow, it would pull in some middle-class who just want more space without losing a good commute, and you'd see some mild gentrification. But you wouldn't see what's happened in the inner core. Those gentrifiers aren't the ones bothered by the cost of living in Boston; they're the reason the cost of living is what it is. They pick and choose where they live because they can afford to live anywhere, so the best (and really only) way to lure them is with amenities and exclusivities, not commute times. They'd rather be in the place they want to be, and if not, be walkable to the place they want to be. They don't want to be a 45 minute train ride from where they want to be, unless there's no better option.
If New Bedford or Mundane or Mill City was a 15 minute commute to Back Bay tomorrow, what would entice a remote worker with a 3BD condo in Back Bay to sell and move to New Bedford? What would entice an executive with a large home in Brookline, Newton, Lexington, or even Wellesley to move? What would entice a young single professional who works remotely and lives in Charlestown or Seaport to move?
If New Bedford became an easy commute tomorrow, it would pull in some middle-class who just want more space without losing a good commute, and you'd see some mild gentrification. But you wouldn't see what's happened in the inner core. Those gentrifiers aren't the ones bothered by the cost of living in Boston; they're the reason the cost of living is what it is. They pick and choose where they live because they can afford to live anywhere, so the best (and really only) way to lure them is with amenities and exclusivities, not commute times. They'd rather be in the place they want to be, and if not, be walkable to the place they want to be. They don't want to be a 45 minute train ride from where they want to be, unless there's no better option.
If New Bedford or Mundane or Mill City was a 15 minute commute to Back Bay tomorrow, what would entice a remote worker with a 3BD condo in Back Bay to sell and move to New Bedford? What would entice an executive with a large home in Brookline, Newton, Lexington, or even Wellesley to move? What would entice a young single professional who works remotely and lives in Charlestown or Seaport to move?
Nothing you've said here is necessarily wrong. I don't think any outlying city would see gentrification on par with what you see in the inner core, even with a better commute. But I do think it overlooks the in-betweeners. The people with budgets of $500k-1M - so not the Wellesley execs, but also not quite the typical "middle class" buyers either. These buyers account for a huge chunk of the Boston area workforce and they can't touch the 3BD in Back Bay, or the large home in Brookline, Newton, Lexington, or Wellesley. If they've already bought (and many are renting), they have been forced to compromise or settle even though they have a budget that most Americans would kill to have. We're in this camp. We love where we are, but we if we could have afforded Back Bay, or a bit more in Cambridge or Somerville, we would have gone that route over Eastie. These buyers aren't nearly as entrenched.
I can easily see the appeal of New Bedford with a better commute. New Bedford is lumped in with the mill cities because it has a manufacturing/textile past, but it's really not the same as Fall River, Lowell, Lawrence, Brockton, etc. The city center has pre-industrial historic bones, meaning streets that resemble Main St. in Nantucket more than than they look like your typical larger city streets. There's a lot of affordable, historic, single-family homes surrounding a walkable downtown an active restaurant, shopping, and bar scene that appeals to the "we want walkable" crowd. It's a seaport on Buzzard's Bay with ferry and air access to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket, good beaches, and a number of marinas.
With fast and frequent service to Boston, I can absolutely see New Bedford drawing many of those in-betweeners. I think that if they happened, the gentrification would be more akin (but not quite at the same level) to what has happened in Salem rather than Somerville, but it would still be significant. It's very much on the radar for my fiancee and I depending on both the commuter rail schedule and our work flexibility for all of the reasons I mentioned above. For around $400k or so, we can get a 1500 square foot historic single family home in a nice neighborhood within walking distance to everything downtown and still manage to afford a slip for my boat and hop on the train to Boston a few days per week. The Brookline exec has no use for that, but that has appeal to a large chunk of the workforce.
Boston ultimately always bends towards NYC, over time. It's a natural thing. Were just constantly 30/40 years behind them.
Same way MA constantly bends towards being more like NJ over time. Were about 25 years behind that state.
Behind in exactly what? If your on about trains, NJT is a state wide system which is far bureaucratic than what MA or a lot of other states have. But NJT ends up with money wasting projects like the River Rail from Trenton to Camden… atleast it got light rail.
I look at NJ as a 2006 Massachusetts. Its a joke i boston born housemates make with us.
Nj just started getting the new dunks.
To me, Seattle Boston and SF are living more futuristic than not.
Nothing you've said here is necessarily wrong. I don't think any outlying city would see gentrification on par with what you see in the inner core, even with a better commute. But I do think it overlooks the in-betweeners. The people with budgets of $500k-1M - so not the Wellesley execs, but also not quite the typical "middle class" buyers either. These buyers account for a huge chunk of the Boston area workforce and they can't touch the 3BD in Back Bay, or the large home in Brookline, Newton, Lexington, or Wellesley. If they've already bought (and many are renting), they have been forced to compromise or settle even though they have a budget that most Americans would kill to have. We're in this camp. We love where we are, but we if we could have afforded Back Bay, or a bit more in Cambridge or Somerville, we would have gone that route over Eastie. These buyers aren't nearly as entrenched.
I can easily see the appeal of New Bedford with a better commute. New Bedford is lumped in with the mill cities because it has a manufacturing/textile past, but it's really not the same as Fall River, Lowell, Lawrence, Brockton, etc. The city center has pre-industrial historic bones, meaning streets that resemble Main St. in Nantucket more than than they look like your typical larger city streets. There's a lot of affordable, historic, single-family homes surrounding a walkable downtown an active restaurant, shopping, and bar scene that appeals to the "we want walkable" crowd. It's a seaport on Buzzard's Bay with ferry and air access to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket, good beaches, and a number of marinas.
With fast and frequent service to Boston, I can absolutely see New Bedford drawing many of those in-betweeners. I think that if they happened, the gentrification would be more akin (but not quite at the same level) to what has happened in Salem rather than Somerville, but it would still be significant. It's very much on the radar for my fiancee and I depending on both the commuter rail schedule and our work flexibility for all of the reasons I mentioned above. For around $400k or so, we can get a 1500 square foot historic single family home in a nice neighborhood within walking distance to everything downtown and still manage to afford a slip for my boat and hop on the train to Boston a few days per week. The Brookline exec has no use for that, but that has appeal to a large chunk of the workforce.
Around here, the $500k-$1M crowd effectively is the middle class. It's rough for someone who really is in the national middle class income range, but that's yet another way Boston is like San Francisco these days. I do agree that people in that range would be seen as gentrifiers in most of the US, but they are not in eastern MA. Even the schools exemplify this in their own way: a C student around here would be an A student in many parts of the country, but it doesn't change the fact they're still a C student around here.
Would a place like New Bedford rise up from where it is? Sure, and I agree I could see it becoming like a Salem or Newburyport. It wouldn't see parity with Boston, and Boston wouldn't really see a reduction or loss of gentrification being siphoned away to these outer towns.
Around here, the $500k-$1M crowd effectively is the middle class. It's rough for someone who really is in the national middle class income range, but that's yet another way Boston is like San Francisco these days. I do agree that people in that range would be seen as gentrifiers in most of the US, but they are not in eastern MA. Even the schools exemplify this in their own way: a C student around here would be an A student in many parts of the country, but it doesn't change the fact they're still a C student around here.
Would a place like New Bedford rise up from where it is? Sure, and I agree I could see it becoming like a Salem or Newburyport. It wouldn't see parity with Boston, and Boston wouldn't really see a reduction or loss of gentrification being siphoned away to these outer towns.
You're right about that range being middle class here. The issue is that there's very little room in the housing market for that $500k-$1M Boston middle class. That's where we are, and our options were to compromise (relatively significantly) to remain close to the Boston core, or move out to no-mans land and deal with a nightmare commute. We did the best we could with our budget (sticking with Boston), but because of the level of compromise involved, we're not nearly as entrenched here as the execs you're talking about. And while we're "middle class" in Boston, our income and housing budget would definitely put us in the gentrifyers camp in a place like New Bedford.
But I do agree with you. I think it's a both/and situation. Demand in Boston is more than enough to sustain the gentrification it's currently seeing. There's also opportunity for places on the edge (and just outside) to see a bump as well.
Behind in exactly what? If your on about trains, NJT is a state wide system which is far bureaucratic than what MA or a lot of other states have. But NJT ends up with money wasting projects like the River Rail from Trenton to Camden… atleast it got light rail.
I look at NJ as a 2006 Massachusetts. Its a joke i boston born housemates make with us.
Nj just started getting the new dunks.
To me, Seattle Boston and SF are living more futuristic than not.
In terms of residential/commercial development, loosening of puritan laws, chains, demography, climate etc. Every year Boston loses a Boston staple or other egionalism or something get bought up by a NYC based company.
As for dunks um....Jersey mikes just got to Mass. *shrug* An yes NJT is obviously "ahead" of MBTA as the MBTA wants to go to an NJT model by 2050. And don't worry, were about to waste money on South Coast Rail too...
Naw my wife from Maplewood New Jersey says everything in Boston and New England looks old and grey and looks like the 80s. She always says its like the 80s. (we weren't alive then)
I don't find Boston "futuristic" at all. Efficient but futurusitc.
Nothing you've said here is necessarily wrong. I don't think any outlying city would see gentrification on par with what you see in the inner core, even with a better commute. But I do think it overlooks the in-betweeners. The people with budgets of $500k-1M - so not the Wellesley execs, but also not quite the typical "middle class" buyers either. These buyers account for a huge chunk of the Boston area workforce and they can't touch the 3BD in Back Bay, or the large home in Brookline, Newton, Lexington, or Wellesley. If they've already bought (and many are renting), they have been forced to compromise or settle even though they have a budget that most Americans would kill to have. We're in this camp. We love where we are, but we if we could have afforded Back Bay, or a bit more in Cambridge or Somerville, we would have gone that route over Eastie. These buyers aren't nearly as entrenched.
I can easily see the appeal of New Bedford with a better commute. New Bedford is lumped in with the mill cities because it has a manufacturing/textile past, but it's really not the same as Fall River, Lowell, Lawrence, Brockton, etc. The city center has pre-industrial historic bones, meaning streets that resemble Main St. in Nantucket more than than they look like your typical larger city streets. There's a lot of affordable, historic, single-family homes surrounding a walkable downtown an active restaurant, shopping, and bar scene that appeals to the "we want walkable" crowd. It's a seaport on Buzzard's Bay with ferry and air access to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket, good beaches, and a number of marinas.
With fast and frequent service to Boston, I can absolutely see New Bedford drawing many of those in-betweeners. I think that if they happened, the gentrification would be more akin (but not quite at the same level) to what has happened in Salem rather than Somerville, but it would still be significant. It's very much on the radar for my fiancee and I depending on both the commuter rail schedule and our work flexibility for all of the reasons I mentioned above. For around $400k or so, we can get a 1500 square foot historic single family home in a nice neighborhood within walking distance to everything downtown and still manage to afford a slip for my boat and hop on the train to Boston a few days per week. The Brookline exec has no use for that, but that has appeal to a large chunk of the workforce.
New Bedford is way too far away though and has the highest violent crime of any city you listed here. Its easier to get to Boston from FR than NB even. It will never be an easy commute.
-Anyways, Fitchburg has a college and more suburban areas in city limits yet its demography mirrors New Bedofrds and has had a commuter rail for eons.
- Brockton is 30 minutes away and has had multiple commuter rail stops as well as bus service into Boston for eons.
-Lowell is way closer, already has a decade of federal investment, and commuter rail, and Id hardly call Lowell gentrified-its just livable.
As for the downtown, Lowells downtown is nice too but its way closer to Boston and has seen much more investment. Idk how much folks really care about the air access to Nantucket...
I think people used to say this about Port City, MA a few decades ago (places like Salem, Gloucester, Newburyport) and they've definitely gone on to gentrify. Makes me hopeful about Mill City, MA if not Mundane, MA.
1. Homes were much cheaper then, the investment wasn't as offputting.
2. Those communities were small and homogenous and safe (Salem being less so than the other two).
3. Situated at beautiful locales.
4. Commutable to Boston.
5. Our local population wasn't fleeing MA. From what I understand those places grew locally-primarily.
6. Job growth wasn't nearly as concentrated in the City of Boston
For those reasons I don't see us shifting our economy out that way so long as Boston is still hot
New Bedford would have a ways to go in terms of gentrifying.
I also am not sold that $1m is middle class in this area.
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