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Yeah, it is the case of chains hurting the Mom and Pop businesses at times, because they know that people will go to the "brand name" store. Even when reading the information from the DLC site, it basically lets you know that "this is it" for those that live Downtown, if you what that type of store nearby. This means that if you want to shop at Kohl's or Target, you'll take to take a 15 minute drive or take a bus to these places.
Good point about parking, as some people(rightly or incorrectly) feel that Downtown parking is a pain. You hear this in Syracuse occasionally too.
People will drive tens of miles, and walk 1/4 to 1/2 mile across a mall parking lot and mall, yet freak out about parallel parking half a block away from a storefront.
Yeah, it is the case of chains hurting the Mom and Pop businesses at times, because they know that people will go to the "brand name" store. Even when reading the information from the DLC site, it basically lets you know that "this is it" for those that live Downtown, if you what that type of store nearby. This means that if you want to shop at Kohl's or Target, you'll take to take a 15 minute drive or take a bus to these places.
Good point about parking, as some people(rightly or incorrectly) feel that Downtown parking is a pain. You hear this in Syracuse occasionally too.
Mom and Pops sell brand name items, in fact I would say that people who live in Larkinville, for instance prefer the M&P's to the big box stores
People will drive tens of miles, and walk 1/4 to 1/2 mile across a mall parking lot and mall, yet freak out about parallel parking half a block away from a storefront.
In the wintertime forget it. I once parallel parked downtown a got a ticket because a hydrant was buried in snow and I couldn't see it. Parking meters, tickets are garages are a big source of City revenue and if the local business suffers, too bad. Have you ever tried to park on Elmwood in the business district? Its impossible.
"The average hourly rate for parking in Buffalo is $3.50. It'll be about $17.00 to park for 24 hours. Long-term parking rates start a $75.00 per month for an unreserved space, and $120 for a reserved one."
Have any of the posters on here actually ran a business in downtown Buffalo? Between the parking fees, difficulty in hiring, "shrinkage" and lack of residents, its a tough road to hoe. Most of the downtown workers shop where they live. I know this because I worked and ran a business there for many decades. Its not like we were running a luncheonette.
In the wintertime forget it. I once parallel parked downtown a got a ticket because a hydrant was buried in snow and I couldn't see it. Parking meters, tickets are garages are a big source of City revenue and if the local business suffers, too bad. Have you ever tried to park on Elmwood in the business district? Its impossible.
"The average hourly rate for parking in Buffalo is $3.50. It'll be about $17.00 to park for 24 hours. Long-term parking rates start a $75.00 per month for an unreserved space, and $120 for a reserved one."
Have any of the posters on here actually ran a business in downtown Buffalo? Between the parking fees, difficulty in hiring, "shrinkage" and lack of residents, its a tough road to hoe. Most of the downtown workers shop where they live. I know this because I worked and ran a business there for many decades. Its not like we were running a luncheonette.
I worked in downtown ROC back when Midtown Mall still existed. I lot of people would shop on their lunch hours, even at Wegmans for non perishable items
A lot of downtown stores closed because they sold inferior products at inflated prices with bad service and terrible hours. They could get away with it when downtown was the only game in town, and didn't step up when there was real competition. The store owners/managers grew old and set in their ways.
There were also many bad landlords, who failed to maintain or upgrade their properties. I don't think anyone who wasn't there could even imagine how run down, dirty, and just plain bad the buildings and storefronts were downtown in the 70s and early 80s.
People will drive tens of miles, and walk 1/4 to 1/2 mile across a mall parking lot and mall, yet freak out about parallel parking half a block away from a storefront.
I would "freak out about parallel parking" because of the way people drive. I've witnessed too many incidents of "parking by feel", where the person who's parallel parking backs into the spot until they feel their car nudge the car behind them, then move forward in the spot, until they feel their car nudge the car in front of them, finally backing up just a bit, to split the difference. I'm far too fussy about my cars, to subject them to that scenario.
But in the past, when there was still a "shopping district" in downtown Rochester, I used to go there on Thursday evenings, when the stores were open to 9PM, park in the Midtown Plaza garage, and shop Sibley's, McCurdy's, and the stores within the Plaza. IIRC, after 6 PM, the parking was only $1.
It's been a long time since I was "downtown", and I know that some, if not all, of Midtown Plaza has been demolished (what a shame). Is the parking garage still in use?
A lot of downtown stores closed because they sold inferior products at inflated prices with bad service and terrible hours. They could get away with it when downtown was the only game in town, and didn't step up when there was real competition. The store owners/managers grew old and set in their ways.
There were also many bad landlords, who failed to maintain or upgrade their properties. I don't think anyone who wasn't there could even imagine how run down, dirty, and just plain bad the buildings and storefronts were downtown in the 70s and early 80s.
I disagree about inferior products at inflated products. I don't know which stores you were referring to but I remember great products at reasonable prices. Bergers, Jenss, Hengerers, Kleinhans and AM&A's didn't sell inferior products and their stores were well kept up.
A lot of downtown stores closed because they sold inferior products at inflated prices with bad service and terrible hours. They could get away with it when downtown was the only game in town, and didn't step up when there was real competition. The store owners/managers grew old and set in their ways.
There were also many bad landlords, who failed to maintain or upgrade their properties. I don't think anyone who wasn't there could even imagine how run down, dirty, and just plain bad the buildings and storefronts were downtown in the 70s and early 80s.
In a commercial triple net lease, the tenant is responsible for maintenance.
I would "freak out about parallel parking" because of the way people drive. I've witnessed too many incidents of "parking by feel", where the person who's parallel parking backs into the spot until they feel their car nudge the car behind them, then move forward in the spot, until they feel their car nudge the car in front of them, finally backing up just a bit, to split the difference. I'm far too fussy about my cars, to subject them to that scenario.
But in the past, when there was still a "shopping district" in downtown Rochester, I used to go there on Thursday evenings, when the stores were open to 9PM, park in the Midtown Plaza garage, and shop Sibley's, McCurdy's, and the stores within the Plaza. IIRC, after 6 PM, the parking was only $1.
It's been a long time since I was "downtown", and I know that some, if not all, of Midtown Plaza has been demolished (what a shame). Is the parking garage still in use?
Yes, off subject, but the garage was saved, along with the tower, which was completely gutted and renovated, and 3 stories of the B. Forman building. There also is a new 5 story building under construction where Wegmans was. I agree, shouldn't have torn it down
No Buffalo-based department store chain ever closed just their downtown Buffalo store, while leaving the suburban stores open. The changing face of retail, with smaller chains going bankrupt and the survivors being consolidated into larger national chains, ultimately killed retail in downtown Buffalo. A minor factor was the changing demographics in some city neighborhoods.
W.T. Grant: entire chain closed; not just the downtown store. The national chain went bust, and the downtown store closed about 1978, along with every other Grant’s in the nation. Sattler’s: entire chain closed; not just the downtown store. The downtown store closed around 1982, along with the other two stores (one at the very popular Boulevard Mall, the other on Broadway. The Sattler’s store in Boulevard Mall became a Hengerer’s (see below). Hens and Kelly: entire chain closed; not just the downtown store. The chain went bust in the mid-1980s. The downtown store was the last in the chain to close. Some suburban stores were reused by AM&As; others sat vacant for years and were demolished or converted to other uses. L.L. Berger: entire chain closed; not just the downtown store. The entire chain went bust in the late 1980s. The downtown store was the last in the chain to close, in 1991. The stores in the suburbs weren’t later occupied by national department store chains; the buildings were divided into smaller retail spaces and leased to smaller stores. Hengerer’s: The chain was sold to the Rochester-based Sibley’s chain in the mid-1980s. The downtown store was closed in 1989, before the Sibley’s chain was absorbed into Kauffmans. Adam Meldrum and Anderson: middle-end, locally-owned department store chain with about 15 stores. The chain was sold to Pennsylvania-based Bon Ton in 1994. Bon Ton promised to keep the downtown store, but a year later decided to close the 300,000 square foot flagship; the chain’s policy was “we don’t do downtowns”. Bon Ton even closed their flagship store in downtown York, Pennsylvania. A Toronto businessman opened an upscale department store in the former AM&As building in 1998 (Taylor’s), but it failed a year later. Kleinhans: entire chain closed; not just the downtown store. Woolworth’s: entire chain closed; not just the downtown store. Sears closed most of their urban stores nationwide in the 1970s; Buffalo’s huge Sears store closed in 1980. Sample chain died in 1990 (city store was the last one to close; the previous owner of the chain died, and the children didn’t want to run the business). Kobackers went bust, with suburban and city stores closing.
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Retail in downtown Buffalo was a victim of general trends in the retail industry — poorly managed local chains (where all stores closed, not just city locations), and national chains that “didn’t do downtowns” which bought out locals — and the decline of the region as a while.
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