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I was born and raised in Maine. The schools there, on the whole, are not as good as Vermont schools. Vermont is, in almost every ranking of K-12 public schools, ranked in the top 5. Maine is typically ranked around 15. The higher taxes likely have a lot to do with that.
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Originally Posted by Marguerite2015
I have lived in New England my whole life - presently in a suburb of Portland, Maine. I lived in Vermont for 6 years as a kid, and return for vacations frequently. I have considered moving there, but on top of the high cost of housing is those nutso property taxes.
For example, a house just sold on Flynn Ave in Burlington - a house we had rented as an airbnb 2 years ago. It's small - a 2 bedroom 1 bath with a garage, circa 1960s. The neighbors on both sides are a single driveway's width away. The house last sold in 2005 for $250k, and just sold last month for $589k, which was $12k over the asking price. Again, this is a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house.
The property taxes on this place went from $6700 (!) in 2020, to $8900 (!!) in 2021 - a jump in one year of over $2k. I know the city decided to do a residential property tax assessment in the middle of the pandemic, which blows the mind. This new tax rate is $741 a month on top of the mortgage.
Here in Maine, I live in a 1960s duplex I own with 2 bedrooms & 1 ba per side on .3 acres on a quiet dead end street. My taxes are $3k a year. The same house in Portand would be around $4500 - $5k in taxes.
The taxes on the same house in Burlington or within commuting distance to same? Apparently $9k.
To add insult to injury, my taxes include weekly trash pickup. Vermont with its high taxes doesn't even include trash pickup - you have to hire a private company yourself. (This results in the loud, smelly trash trucks coming down your street multiple days a week since different companies have different pickup days.)
Portland and Burlington are very similar cities. Both are the biggest cities in their northern New England states. Both are relatively small population wise and have loads of good qualities, quality of life, lots of cultural amenities, low unemployment, good schools, low crime, etc.
PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME - what is up with Vermont's property taxes? NOT JUST in Burlington, either?
I have lived in New England my whole life - presently in a suburb of Portland, Maine. I lived in Vermont for 6 years as a kid, and return for vacations frequently. I have considered moving there, but on top of the high cost of housing is those nutso property taxes.
For example, a house just sold on Flynn Ave in Burlington - a house we had rented as an airbnb 2 years ago. It's small - a 2 bedroom 1 bath with a garage, circa 1960s. The neighbors on both sides are a single driveway's width away. The house last sold in 2005 for $250k, and just sold last month for $589k, which was $12k over the asking price. Again, this is a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house.
The property taxes on this place went from $6700 (!) in 2020, to $8900 (!!) in 2021 - a jump in one year of over $2k. I know the city decided to do a residential property tax assessment in the middle of the pandemic, which blows the mind. This new tax rate is $741 a month on top of the mortgage.
Here in Maine, I live in a 1960s duplex I own with 2 bedrooms & 1 ba per side on .3 acres on a quiet dead end street. My taxes are $3k a year. The same house in Portand would be around $4500 - $5k in taxes.
The taxes on the same house in Burlington or within commuting distance to same? Apparently $9k.
To add insult to injury, my taxes include weekly trash pickup. Vermont with its high taxes doesn't even include trash pickup - you have to hire a private company yourself. (This results in the loud, smelly trash trucks coming down your street multiple days a week since different companies have different pickup days.)
Portland and Burlington are very similar cities. Both are the biggest cities in their northern New England states. Both are relatively small population wise and have loads of good qualities, quality of life, lots of cultural amenities, low unemployment, good schools, low crime, etc.
PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME - what is up with Vermont's property taxes? NOT JUST in Burlington, either?
When I compare low taxed States like Delaware and NC, I just don't understand how our gov't can justify spending so much money, especially when it comes to our failing education system. We have a decline every year of students, but never a decline in teachers. As far as getting a good education, VT ranks 23rd, but we are the third highest in education spending in the country. I would never move here if I had young children. Vermont is a beautiful state to visit, but unfortunately, it isn't run the way it should. The Progressives control our gov't and they thrive on spending tax dollars. Our governor is a Republican in name only, so if you lean to the Left, you will like it here.
I pay as much for the garbage I have to bring to the dump myself, as my family on Long Island pays through their taxes, and they get 3 pickups a week, including large appliances and furniture. It works out much better but with this administration, I don't know if it would be a good idea. It would just be giving them more reasons to tax us and more excuses as to why they have to raise taxes.
Burlington is totally different than the rural towns in VT. At a time like this, when people are worried about having enough money to feed their family, Burlington is voting on legalizing prostitution. Where their priorities are, who knows. But nothing surprises me after living here over twenty years. My hairstylist just closed her shop, sold her house and is moving south. She said she can't take the politics in VT anymore. It's very sad.
When I compare low taxed States like Delaware and NC, I just don't understand how our gov't can justify spending so much money, especially when it comes to our failing education system. We have a decline every year of students, but never a decline in teachers. As far as getting a good education, VT ranks 23rd, but we are the third highest in education spending in the country. I would never move here if I had young children. Vermont is a beautiful state to visit, but unfortunately, it isn't run the way it should. The Progressives control our gov't and they thrive on spending tax dollars. Our governor is a Republican in name only, so if you lean to the Left, you will like it here.
I pay as much for the garbage I have to bring to the dump myself, as my family on Long Island pays through their taxes, and they get 3 pickups a week, including large appliances and furniture. It works out much better but with this administration, I don't know if it would be a good idea. It would just be giving them more reasons to tax us and more excuses as to why they have to raise taxes.
Burlington is totally different than the rural towns in VT. At a time like this, when people are worried about having enough money to feed their family, Burlington is voting on legalizing prostitution. Where their priorities are, who knows. But nothing surprises me after living here over twenty years. My hairstylist just closed her shop, sold her house and is moving south. She said she can't take the politics in VT anymore. It's very sad.
This is happening more and more. Between ever increasing costs and the clear progressive bent of the politicians, who (I REPEAT) are doing nothing to ease the taxpayers burden, people are just moving out. The wealthy stay and live their 'privileged' lives, although I don't think they see it that way.
In what publication/journal/site is Vermont ranked 23rd? Yes, spending per pupil is high, no doubt about it, but the schools are amongst the top 5-10 in most analyses that look at educational quality and outcomes.
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Originally Posted by NYLIER
When I compare low taxed States like Delaware and NC, I just don't understand how our gov't can justify spending so much money, especially when it comes to our failing education system. We have a decline every year of students, but never a decline in teachers. As far as getting a good education, VT ranks 23rd, but we are the third highest in education spending in the country. I would never move here if I had young children. Vermont is a beautiful state to visit, but unfortunately, it isn't run the way it should. The Progressives control our gov't and they thrive on spending tax dollars. Our governor is a Republican in name only, so if you lean to the Left, you will like it here.
I pay as much for the garbage I have to bring to the dump myself, as my family on Long Island pays through their taxes, and they get 3 pickups a week, including large appliances and furniture. It works out much better but with this administration, I don't know if it would be a good idea. It would just be giving them more reasons to tax us and more excuses as to why they have to raise taxes.
Burlington is totally different than the rural towns in VT. At a time like this, when people are worried about having enough money to feed their family, Burlington is voting on legalizing prostitution. Where their priorities are, who knows. But nothing surprises me after living here over twenty years. My hairstylist just closed her shop, sold her house and is moving south. She said she can't take the politics in VT anymore. It's very sad.
This is happening more and more. Between ever increasing costs and the clear progressive bent of the politicians, who (I REPEAT) are doing nothing to ease the taxpayers burden, people are just moving out. The wealthy stay and live their 'privileged' lives, although I don't think they see it that way.
It doesn't matter to the State if we sell because another taxpayer with dreams of living in VT will move in and probably pay more taxes. When I moved here, my local gov't raised my property taxes $1000. A few years later they tried it again but I raised hell. They ended up lowering it.
What upsets me is to be ignored when I have contacted the governor's office for over three years about an invasive weed destroying the hay fields and pastures in this area. Now they have federal funds to eradicate it, and they still won't address the problem. This isn't right. If I can't make hay, how am I supposed to feed my animals. They just don't care.
Riley, the programs that taxpayers fund is ridiculous. I spoke to a woman that gets paid by the gov't to take high school students to explore different colleges for three and four days. We pay for their hotels, transportation, meals and entertainment. What happened to parenting? I also read that my district sent the seventh and eighth grade students to camp this summer to help them "transition" to the high school. How about we help them by letting them grow up and face the ups and downs that are normal human emotions. These extras that taxpayers are burdened with are piling up.
In what publication/journal/site is Vermont ranked 23rd? Yes, spending per pupil is high, no doubt about it, but the schools are amongst the top 5-10 in most analyses that look at educational quality and outcomes.
I googled it. Only one school in VT ranked among the top 5. I think it was usnews I clicked on. I was surprised it even made #23 since a lot of these students aren't prepared for college when they graduate.
Do you look at the data on the Dept of Education page? Actually, I read a letter from the Governor on that site that didn't paint the education system in a good light. If I find it, I will post it.
I was born and raised in Maine. The schools there, on the whole, are not as good as Vermont schools. Vermont is, in almost every ranking of K-12 public schools, ranked in the top 5. Maine is typically ranked around 15. The higher taxes likely have a lot to do with that.
My personal observation is that how well a child does in school depends a whole lot on how much their parents value education, and not a whole lot else. There will always be exceptions in both directions, but in general that's the way it has worked from what I've seen. No amount of money can replace a parent that's involved and cares about their child's education, not even close.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLIER
It doesn't matter to the State if we sell because another taxpayer with dreams of living in VT will move in and probably pay more taxes. When I moved here, my local gov't raised my property taxes $1000. A few years later they tried it again but I raised hell. They ended up lowering it.
What upsets me is to be ignored when I have contacted the governor's office for over three years about an invasive weed destroying the hay fields and pastures in this area. Now they have federal funds to eradicate it, and they still won't address the problem. This isn't right. If I can't make hay, how am I supposed to feed my animals. They just don't care.
Riley, the programs that taxpayers fund is ridiculous. I spoke to a woman that gets paid by the gov't to take high school students to explore different colleges for three and four days. We pay for their hotels, transportation, meals and entertainment. What happened to parenting? I also read that my district sent the seventh and eighth grade students to camp this summer to help them "transition" to the high school. How about we help them by letting them grow up and face the ups and downs that are normal human emotions. These extras that taxpayers are burdened with are piling up.
Um, you're ignoring the irony of your complaining about taxpayer funds being spent on students, then complaining taxpayer funds aren't being given to you?
You could apply to NRCS for the Federal funding to control invasive species in your fields. Loads of people do, I've helped people get money for treating black swallowwort, autumn olive, etc. No reason to go to a Governor's office at all. If the state had funding for such things they would have a competitive procurement system for distributing it, like a Landowner Incentive Program (or similar), and the Governor's office wouldn't help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhpa
My personal observation is that how well a child does in school depends a whole lot on how much their parents value education, and not a whole lot else. There will always be exceptions in both directions, but in general that's the way it has worked from what I've seen. No amount of money can replace a parent that's involved and cares about their child's education, not even close.
More true than not. My nephews went to public schools in VT and their education was at or beyond what I got at one of the blue chip metro west suburbs often considered to have a "gold plated" school system. Both went to good schools, and one just started a pretty prestigious grad program.
Last edited by timberline742; 08-16-2022 at 06:46 PM..
It doesn't matter to the State if we sell because another taxpayer with dreams of living in VT will move in and probably pay more taxes. When I moved here, my local gov't raised my property taxes $1000. A few years later they tried it again but I raised hell. They ended up lowering it.
What upsets me is to be ignored when I have contacted the governor's office for over three years about an invasive weed destroying the hay fields and pastures in this area. Now they have federal funds to eradicate it, and they still won't address the problem. This isn't right. If I can't make hay, how am I supposed to feed my animals. They just don't care.
Riley, the programs that taxpayers fund is ridiculous. I spoke to a woman that gets paid by the gov't to take high school students to explore different colleges for three and four days. We pay for their hotels, transportation, meals and entertainment. What happened to parenting? I also read that my district sent the seventh and eighth grade students to camp this summer to help them "transition" to the high school. How about we help them by letting them grow up and face the ups and downs that are normal human emotions. These extras that taxpayers are burdened with are piling up.
Wow. I didn't know this!! More and more, it appears that schools feel it's their responsibility to steward children/young adults through life. And locally, parents are more than willing to relinquish that responsibility to school personnel.
I don't have kids (and so of course around here I have no right to express an opinion), but a friend used to work an admin position at the high school next town over and she basically described staff over there as a hot mess, half of whom couldn't get their own lives together and children who were out of control due to poor parenting. It's so unfortunate. Kids have to learn how to deal with the challenges life throws at them on their own, or with their own parents' stewardship. I was. And I was allowed to fail occasionally Different world. Not necessarily better!!
I have to pay to have my trash picked up every other week OR I can take it to the dump myself and pay them to take it. We got tired of that after 20 years.
Something else I forgot to mention about our education funding - we have 'supervisory unions' which oversee school operations. In my particular area, the union covers only 4 schools with @1800 students and is a whole 'nother layer of (IMO) unnecessary costs. The head guy makes at least $100K. Multiply this by 60 or so unions. And each cover just a few schools. I've always thought consolidating this into a county wide operation would make much more sense.
In my 20 years here I have never seen a sincere effort to reduce the burden on taxpayers, other than the education tax 'rebate.' The people in Montpelier pursue other agendas, and like much of Washington DC, seem to care not one whit about the middle class, despite their protestations to the contrary.
Governor Scott (a republican, BTW) ran on 'making VT more affordable.' Ain't seen that yet.
As to where we might move: Lower cost of living and an 'easier' winter (effort and cost wise) were the priority, but so was clean, open green spaces, low crime rate, not alot of traffic. We've looked in SC, NC, TN and WY. Neither TN or WY tax pensions but WY winters are brutal. That said, it's a wild wide open space, with VT population in about 10+ times the area. Beautiful but somewhat desolate in places. That's on the back burner. I could continue with winter in the right place.
NC and SC were simply too crowded for us. Everyone seems to want to go there for the weather. New Englanders who move to FL come back to these states during the summer because now FL is too hot. TN is nice but also getting crowded. I know many people from CA who moved there for tax reasons.
We were waiting til I retired in 2020 to start looking again but then COVID hit, and all things considered, we're probably better off here than we would have been anywhere else in many respects.
We plan to look around Maine and NH (which also doesn't tax pensions btw). Being close to good medical care has moved up in priority somewhat.
You are right that Vermont was perhaps the best, safest place to be during the height of Covid.
These high taxes are another way the middle class is being eliminated, IMO. It's just mind blowing. It sounds like they are finding ways to employ themselves at the taxpayer's expense.
Because of my loathing of the winter overall - my fault for never having taken up skiing or snowshoeing etc. I guess! - I have considered moving south also - Savannah, various places in FL. Myself, I need a walkable town - which is why I cannot stomach car dependent sprawl nightmares like Phoenix, Tucson, etc About 5 yrs ago, after 2 particularly brutal winters here, I finally had enough and applied for a temp job at a place in Lake Mary, FL which is near Orlando (though didn't get the job), and considered living in Winter Park which would have been a nice, walkable town within commuting distance. I also spent a week in Delray Beach FL as it fits my need for a lovely, historic, walkable downtown and is commutable to West Palm and St Lauderdale for work opportunities. And at the time, it had very reasonably priced condos, especially 55+ places. (I was only 50 at the time, but was planning ahead).
BUT the thing that kept coming up was the crime rates down south compared with those up north for similar sized cities. For example, Sarasota vs Portland Maine. Similar sizes, yet the crime is insane in Sarasota as it seems to be in most Fla cities and is much higher in Savannah than in similar sized cities up north. Then I learned that Delray Beach, lovely as it is, has a huge amount of both registered and unregistered "sober homes" ie drug rehab facilities for some reason and a high accompanying OD rate. Meaning, you can live somewhere, and not even know, because they don't require them to register, that you are living next door to a drug rehab house. They are all over town, and this is a beautiful town. While I understand the opioid epidemic has been a terrible thing, I guess I still don't want to live next door to a drug rehab facility and find that out too late - after I've moved in. This is 'government off our backs' one step too far, IMO. I'm too young to retire - so I can't be in the middle of nowhere - I have to be near a place with employment.
Still looking for that magical place that isn't crime ridden, has good winter weather, REASONABLE COST, is walkable and historic and has employment beyond minimum wage t-shirt shops and fast food/hotels.
Maine has a lot of good qualities, should you decide to come here. Our winters aren't quite as bad as Vermont's, though they are no picnic, and the property taxes are certainly much much lower here. The summer traffic gets nuts compared with how relatively empty Vermont is in summers, which sucks. Portland is very similar to Burlington in many ways culturally, the restaurant scene, plenty of beaches (though even in July, the water is ice cold). Not as beautiful as Vermont IMO, but only an easy 2 hour drive to Boston from Portland area which for me is a huge bonus.
Best of luck to you!
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Different world. Not necessarily better!!
