Do you think California will be split in two? (Chinese, student)

[BlackShoe]

Originally Posted by majoun

Mexico isn't in any shape to annex anything. It can't even control all of its own territory let alone add any more.

Perhaps the sarcastic dig at the out of control illegal alien situation in California was missed by a few readers. No foreign power is going to occupy California, most surely not the damn ChiComs, and as noted, Mexico is close to collapse and anarchy. As for dividing the state, California is so complex and diversified that at least four to as many as ten states could be created. A simple north/south split would not do. Nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future, California will continue to limp along in its dysfunctional way with its borders just as they are. There would be only token public support and little real interest in dividing the state, even if there were, state and federal politicians and bureaucrats would go into gridlock on any such proposal.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by BlackShoe

Perhaps the sarcastic dig at the out of control illegal alien situation in California was missed by a few readers. No foreign power is going to occupy California, most surely not the damn ChiComs

The Chinese have the capability to do so.

. As for dividing the state, California is so complex and diversified that at least four to as many as ten states could be created. A simple north/south split would not do.

There was a book some time ago called "The Nine Nations Of California" and it was not about Native American tribes but it was about the state having nine distinct regions.

Nothing is going to change in the foreseeable future, California will continue to limp along in its dysfunctional way with its borders just as they are. There would be only token public support and little real interest in dividing the state, even if there were, state and federal politicians and bureaucrats would go into gridlock on any such proposal.

Although doing so would open up more career possibilities for politicians, and if the GOP got control of Congress in November there might even be federal support for such a proposal. Remember, without California having so many electoral votes it's much harder for a Democrat to win the presidency. In the past Republicans have been more apt to support splitting up the state than Democrats. I sense the reason why the GOP hasn't fully committed to splitting up California is because the center of GOP money in California (Orange County) would be in a different state from the rural north.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Despite what some believe, if there were enough political momentum...yes. Although not easily. Now some may argue that our constitution makes it illegal to secede.

Texas v. White forbids unilateral secession of a US state. (No big surprise what state it concerns and when the SCOTUS decided said case - in the late 1860s). It only allows secession of a state "by the consent of the other states" which is usually interpreted to mean an Act of Congress.

The Republican Party gaining control of Congress after the November elections is hardly an unrealistic possibility. Say California's fiscal problems reach the point of default (also not an unrealistic possibility) and the GOP Congress refuses to bail out California. The state would then have to threaten secession in order to get money out of the Feds. Given that if California seceded it would be very difficult for a Democrat to be elected US president minus CA's electoral votes, the Republicans would probably approve of letting California go.

Of course, if such a bill managed to pass both houses of Congress, Obama would veto it for sure.

[Lovehound]

Originally Posted by majoun

Texas v. White forbids unilateral secession of a US state. (No big surprise what state it concerns and when the SCOTUS decided said case - in the late 1860s). It only allows secession of a state "by the consent of the other states" which is usually interpreted to mean an Act of Congress.

The Republican Party gaining control of Congress after the November elections is hardly an unrealistic possibility. Say California's fiscal problems reach the point of default (also not an unrealistic possibility) and the GOP Congress refuses to bail out California.

Just agreeing with you, it is outside reality that the federal government would not bail out California. There may be concessions to Californian self control but the federal government has no choice except to bail us out should we fail.

[californio sur]

Originally Posted by 415 Native

How about Orange County be it's own state and leave the rest of us alone.

Orange county is more like Texas than California and sticks out like a mini Bible-belt. I think Orange county would be better off being re-annexed to Los Angeles county as it was 100 years ago and outvote all the yahoos!

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by majoun

Texas v. White forbids unilateral secession of a US state. (No big surprise what state it concerns and when the SCOTUS decided said case - in the late 1860s). It only allows secession of a state "by the consent of the other states" which is usually interpreted to mean an Act of Congress.

The Republican Party gaining control of Congress after the November elections is hardly an unrealistic possibility. Say California's fiscal problems reach the point of default (also not an unrealistic possibility) and the GOP Congress refuses to bail out California. The state would then have to threaten secession in order to get money out of the Feds. Given that if California seceded it would be very difficult for a Democrat to be elected US president minus CA's electoral votes, the Republicans would probably approve of letting California go.

Of course, if such a bill managed to pass both houses of Congress, Obama would veto it for sure.

Totally understand but like I said, in most cases when a unit of a nation secedes, it's usually against that nations laws in one way or another. Usually all it takes is a few key nations somewhere in the word to recognize the new nations independence. It is this key fact that causes international issues, just like it did when Kosovo seceded from Serbia despite it being against Serbia's law. Hypothetically, if Ca. declared independence and let's say Russia and China and one European country recognizes it (Germany has a habit of doing this), that means those nations would have relations with and do business with California as a nation, essentially making it viable albeit dependent on the nations who initially supported it. As a potential international economic partner, it wouldn't be long before an independent California became more widely accepted.

This is all hypothetical of course but it's entirely possible IF Ca. ever got it's act together.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by californio sur

orange county is more like texas than california and sticks out like a mini bible-belt. I think orange county would be better off being re-annexed to los angeles county as it was 100 years ago and outvote all the yahoos!

lol!

[Dazedknight]

As things are going for California and the US I am guessing that all of California, Arizona, New Mexico and most of Texas will be re annexed into Mexico probably by attrition in less than ten generations. I don't see any argument for that point of view coming from the American Government any time in the near future. Mexico is quickly building industry and will be gradually recognized over the next few generations.

[Twinkle Toes]

Originally Posted by iPwn

with the government crisis, etc could you see the state being divided in half?

Only by the "Big One".

[TimC2462]

Not this MOD CUT again.