California's rosy fiscal outlook the envy of Washington state? (section 8, crime)

[Scott5280]

Originally Posted by nslander

Anybody paying attention knew that brand of prosperity was ephemeral and leveraged. Get over it.

Seriously dude, that could be said about every where USA, but look at California's basic infrastructure compared to much of the US. I love California and plan on making a strong future here, but to ignore it's non so subtle decline is insane.

[bigboibob]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Outstanding. Good to hear.

Now then, when you get the wheels in motion on that, I'll applaud and support you. Good luck in working with the legislature on your plan. But until then, I'm calling your call for tuition hikes counter productive for society - despite cost to taxpayers. What do you think the cost is to us plebeians all to have an increasingly narrow oligarchic society of fraternity elites?

Forque that, bub.

We've come to stand still because college isn't just for the elite since over 30 percent of the population gets degrees now.

Anybody can get student loans, work part time and go to college.

It's counterproductive to shift expenses in the name of a naive untested ideology from 1 generation to the next for close to no benefit for anyone.

[larrycarver]

Originally Posted by dmenscha

god i hate it when politicians get the credit/blame for the economy. It's called the business cycle and it's practically on the first page of econ 101. Lucky enough to be elected at the bottom of the business cycle? You must be a genious. Unlucky enough to be elected at the top of the business cycle? "it's the economy stupid".

King knute did pretty well having his army attack the incoming tide too.

^exactly!

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by bigboibob

We've come to stand still because college isn't just for the elite since over 30 percent of the population gets degrees now.

Anybody can get student loans, work part time and go to college.

It's counterproductive to shift expenses in the name of a naive untested ideology from 1 generation to the next for close to no benefit for anyone.

Essentially true, bob. But you aren't addressing the other side of the reality that would occur if costs are jacked up. Then it does two things:
Either serves predominately an elite that feeds an oligarchic future -
Or saddles the lessor players with unresolvable debt because they can't compete even with their degrees.

So, I'm not entirely disagreeing with some of your observations. As I pointed out, I'm a high school drop out - perfectly well educated, more than most I'd dare say, by my own curiosities. Other than some years in military, I was a printer and read a lot. But you aren't getting to the nut of equitable solutions.

[bigboibob]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Essentially true, bob. But you aren't addressing the other side of the reality that would occur if costs are jacked up. Then it does two things:
Either serves predominately an elite that feeds an oligarchic future -
Or saddles the lessor players with unresolvable debt because they can't compete even with their degrees.

So, I'm not entirely disagreeing with some of your observations. As I pointed out, I'm a high school drop out - perfectly well educated, more than most I'd dare say, by my own curiosities. Other than some years in military, I was a printer and read a lot. But you aren't getting to the nut of equitable solutions.

I believe there should be a higher tiered income tax where the rich get taxed more similar to the 1950s

I don't think the tuition is an effective or efficient way of dealing with income disparity

The main reason the ultra rich can pay less in taxes is because of the long term capital gains tax(15%) the ultra wealthy tends to make money through investments and they only are taxed 15% on the profit they make from long term investments.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/video/76...a-wealthy.html

[JGC97]

Originally Posted by Scott5280

Yes, I know and understand. Complaining gets old , but Venting is like oxygen sometimes. One thing that needs to be seriously addressed however is this crazy illusion that the rest of the US is somehow envious or jelous of California. When I told people I was moving back to California, the over all reaction was anything but positive, the majority of negative responses came from ex Bay area patriots.

I know of no such illusion. California isn't any different than other states. All of them have problems. California garners so much attention because it's eighth in the world economy-wise. That's a heavy burden. If people would really think about that, they might not be so quick to trash the state. Sure, it's not perfect but it's better than many places. I can understand the negativity coming from ex bay area residents, though. I like to visit every so often but I wouldn't want to live there. Too crowded and too many people influenced by material possessions and wealth. There's a lot more to life than that. But thanks for finally posting a comment that's worthy of discussion.

[nslander]

Originally Posted by Scott5280

Seriously dude, that could be said about every where USA, but look at California's basic infrastructure compared to much of the US. I love California and plan on making a strong future here, but to ignore it's non so subtle decline is insane.

It is true that can be said of the nation at-large. But I'm not ignoring a thing: you can’t pretend the prosperity we witnessed in our lifetimes in CA was not drawn disproportionately from defense contracting and its unique ripeness after WWII for suburban explosion. It was a blink of an eye. And that basic infrastructure to which you refer is suffering largely from deferred maintenance after it was implemented to serve that same explosion. I prefer to acknowledge that reality and demand we address it honestly the best we can in the sausage making of politics. The alternative is to ignore the CA specific burst and the causes of the inevitable “adjustments”- including its extreme susceptibility to economic bubbles- and wallow in its “not so subtle decline”. The latter is the popular choice of many, particularly in the places like where you happen to live, but it’s so infected with demagoguery as to be useless.

[Ultrarunner]

There is again a bill to end the Autonomy for the UC system in California... part of it is based on the State having little control for the money expended.

Have no idea if it will get traction or not.

The increases of tuition and salary have not gone unnoticed.

[aboveordinary]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Essentially true, bob. But you aren't addressing the other side of the reality that would occur if costs are jacked up. Then it does two things:
Either serves predominately an elite that feeds an oligarchic future -
Or saddles the lessor players with unresolvable debt because they can't compete even with their degrees.

So, I'm not entirely disagreeing with some of your observations. As I pointed out, I'm a high school drop out - perfectly well educated, more than most I'd dare say, by my own curiosities. Other than some years in military, I was a printer and read a lot. But you aren't getting to the nut of equitable solutions.

Just stop responding to this poster. You're just going around in circles with the same arguments. That poster is obviously anti-education like so many conservatives. They hate higher education because it tends to breed Liberals at least social liberals. In college I've met and made friends with people from all over the World from different cultures and religions and ive engaged in deep conversations that have opened my mind about the World we live in. College teaches critical thinking which is essential in the ability to poke holes in Fox News soundbites and political rhetoric. These are great skills that employers look for. Many of them could care less what someone has majored in. With all respect to you sir, for every smart high school drop out I can find 10 other high school drop outs that are ignorant and know nothing about the World.

[bigboibob]

Originally Posted by aboveordinary

Just stop responding to this poster. You're just going around in circles with the same arguments. That poster is obviously anti-education like so many conservatives. They hate higher education because it tends to breed Liberals at least social liberals. In college I've met and made friends with people from all over the World from different cultures and religions and ive engaged in deep conversations that have opened my mind about the World we live in. College teaches critical thinking which is essential in the ability to poke holes in Fox News soundbites and political rhetoric. These are great skills that employers look for. Many of them could care less what someone has majored in. With all respect to you sir, for every smart high school drop out I can find 10 other high school drop outs that are ignorant and know nothing about the World.

Not really applicable, part of the arising fiscally conservative and socially liberal folk