whitest Cities/ areas in California (Sacramento: rent, HOA, crime)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Sagittarius Sirius

'cheap states' - nope, they are moving because of the economy

Well, that's pretty misleading The economy is improved in general everywhere. Including very strongly in California. That said, different categories of people are moving to find their personal optimal economy based on many factors. People have always done so throughout history. Follow your best opportunity away if you are focused on career and financial issues that don't work well for you where you are.

[BeauCharles]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Well, that's pretty misleading The economy is improved in general everywhere. Including very strongly in California. That said, different categories of people are moving to find their personal optimal economy based on many factors. People have always done so throughout history. Follow your best opportunity away if you are focused on career and financial issues that don't work well for you where you are.

Just read a piece yesterday and California was the #1 state for a drop in middle incomes and a rise in upper incomes. What's happened in this state the last 20-25 years isn't healthy.


States Where the Middle Class Is Dying - 24/7 Wall St.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by BeauCharles

Just read a piece yesterday and California was the #1 state for a drop in middle incomes and a rise in upper incomes. What's happened in this state the last 20-25 years isn't healthy.


States Where the Middle Class Is Dying - 24/7 Wall St.

Isn't healthy for who? The overwhelming influx of population that is mostly focused on middle class existence as post WWII defined it? Yep. I agree. Tough on them.

Things change! Who knew?

[BeauCharles]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Isn't healthy for who? The overwhelming influx of population that is mostly focused on middle class existence as post WWII defined it? Yep. I agree. Tough on them.

Things change! Who knew?

Third world-ish income stratification doesn't benefit society as a whole. I know you've been here long enough to remember the Bay Area in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. A strong and healthy middle class is the backbone of American society. San Francisco with very few such families and children is out-of-whack (for instance). Firemen, teachers, police, nurses, insurance agents, etc... shouldn't have to live in Antioch or Vallejo and commute to the City to to afford a place to live. To be so casually dismissive of them is kind of disgusting. Same can be said of the LA area after the collapse of aerospace and manufacturing (and the exodus of hundreds of thousands of middle class families). Only someone in complete denial would think that present day LA is better than the LA of the early 1980s.

[kttam186290]

Originally Posted by BeauCharles

Third world-ish income stratification doesn't benefit society as a whole. I know you've been here long enough to remember the Bay Area in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. A strong and healthy middle class is the backbone of American society. San Francisco with very few such families and children is out-of-whack (for instance). Firemen, teachers, police, nurses, insurance agents, etc... shouldn't have to live in Antioch or Vallejo and commute to the City to to afford a place to live. To be so casually dismissive of them is kind of disgusting. Same can be said of the LA area after the collapse of aerospace and manufacturing (and the exodus of hundreds of thousands of middle class families). Only someone in complete denial would think that present day LA is better than the LA of the early 1980s.

Ironically, L.A. is now much safer than it was in the early 1980s.

Yes, it is less Anglo American and more Latino now, but it is also less black as well.

Many Latinos can be white too. I have cousins in my family who have a very Mediterranean phenotype and sometimes get mistaken for Italians or Greeks. There are many white Latinos in L.A.

If you want Anglo American neighborhoods and cities near L.A., then your best bet is Simi Valley, Ventura, Thousand Oaks, Moorpark, Redondo Beach, Manhattan Beach, Hermosa Beach, El Segundo, Burbank, Santa Clarita, Yorba Linda, Anaheim Hills, Ladera Ranch, Laguna Niguel, Laguna Beach, Dana Point, San Clemente, Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley, San Juan Capistrano, Rancho Santa Margarita and Newport Beach.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by BeauCharles

Third world-ish income stratification doesn't benefit society as a whole. I know you've been here long enough to remember the Bay Area in the 60s, 70s and early 80s. A strong and healthy middle class is the backbone of American society. San Francisco with very few such families and children is out-of-whack (for instance). Firemen, teachers, police, nurses, insurance agents, etc... shouldn't have to live in Antioch or Vallejo and commute to the City to to afford a place to live. To be so casually dismissive of them is kind of disgusting. Same can be said of the LA area after the collapse of aerospace and manufacturing (and the exodus of hundreds of thousands of middle class families). Only someone in complete denial would think that present day LA is better than the LA of the early 1980s.

You fail to differentiate between dismissively casual disgustingness - and simple truth.

Yes. I would prefer the good olden days. I just don't waste my time bemoaning their passing. It is what it is. The market forces are responsible for the evolution - or devolution, as you may prefer - of our socio-economic environment. California is so desirable it is killing itself. And the only way that could be controlled is through state imposed management - which are be downright anti-Murican. You wouldn't stand for it. It would require a lottery and qualifications system to forcefully accommodate the state's definition of required community personnel (cops, teachers, garbage collectors, etc) along with the wealthy, at subsidized rates.

OR, alternatively, it would require abandoning restrictions on development. Which would, in turn, cram and crap up what's left of the places everyone wants to pack into. Which would, of course, also solve the problem. In its own disgustingly ruinous way.

Reality is, not everybody gets to live anywhere they want in our overpopulated, class stratified, materialistic world. In our system, with our population, the wealthy win. You want to call me cavalier for making that observation? Knock yourself out. You have demonstrated considerable distaste for my posts many times. But you strike me as intelligent enough that you should be able to separate your attitude about me - from truthful statements I make. Give it a shot. Or not.

[UKWildcat1981]

California has a weird obsession over blaming Latinos for all their problems same as Arizona. I don't get it. I was just out in LA lately and everyone non hispanic whites, asians and blacks tend to blame Latinos for a lot of their problems it was almost comical to me. I am not Latino but it seems the same crap as when the USA blamed Arabs and Muslims everything after 9/11.

[DriveNotCommute]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Isn't healthy for who? The overwhelming influx of population that is mostly focused on middle class existence as post WWII defined it? Yep. I agree. Tough on them.

Things change! Who knew?

I have to agree with BeauCharles. Too large of a drop in the middle class isn't good for the state as a whole.

Business isn't going to be able to run itself without middle class workers on the front lines. California has been lucky that a lot of the products its economy is benefiting from today happen to be software that can be made and distributed by software engineers but software can only take us so far.

Meanwhile physical goods may still be designed by well paid senior engineers but would require entry level engineers and skilled front line operators to reliably mass produce. Businesses aren't going to raise salaries to adequately match the cost of living. Then there's the ever-present trades and infrastructure related work that executives in a suit probably aren't planning to do themselves either.

Even supposing we could let California transform into a giant playground for the wealthy. Remember the experiment in Brave New World where they built a city populated exclusively by Alphas? Granted it might make for fascinating entertainment if we could capture it on TV.

[bigdumbgod]

Globalized capitalism. Not everybody wins. CA now being the #7 economy in the world is an entity in competition with the big boys all over, not just other states. Gonna have to get creative to include Joe Lunchbox in that success, or stuff that supports this behemoth won't keep running for long.

[Bonez765]

Originally Posted by UKWildcat1981

California has a weird obsession over blaming Latinos for all their problems same as Arizona. I don't get it. I was just out in LA lately and everyone non hispanic whites, asians and blacks tend to blame Latinos for a lot of their problems it was almost comical to me. I am not Latino but it seems the same crap as when the USA blamed Arabs and Muslims everything after 9/11.

Because they're mad that we ARE the majority now. The problems in CA started during the 1970s when Reagan implemented his voodoonomics philosophy in CA when he was governor and the passing of Proposition 13 (greatly supported by people who are Tulemutt's age because they pay less property taxes than before 1978). Even though passing Proposition 13 reduced the amount of funds available for our schools and ****ed up the state finances, who cares because property taxes are cheaper right? That's the mentality of the Baby Boomers who greatly supported passing Proposition 13.

But about blaming my people for the problems of the state, it's only scapegoating and frustration at being the minorities now.