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Because they're mad that we ARE the majority now. The problems in CA started during the 1970s when Reagan implemented his voodoonomics philosophy in CA when he was governor and the passing of Proposition 13 (greatly supported by people who are Tulemutt's age because they pay less property taxes than before 1978). Even though passing Proposition 13 reduced the amount of funds available for our schools and ****ed up the state finances, who cares because property taxes are cheaper right? That's the mentality of the Baby Boomers who greatly supported passing Proposition 13.
But about blaming my people for the problems of the state, it's only scapegoating and frustration at being the minorities now.
Not everyone but a lot of Americans of all races and religions seem to want to have a scapegoat for all their problems, for example my life sucks because of Obama, I can't get a loan because the Jews control the banks, I can't get a job because the Arabs run all the businesses, its the Latino's fault for overcrowding in California and the list goes on and on. I get sick of Americans not taking personal responsibility for their own problems. It is rather sad and a lot of adults act like kids.
Because they're mad that we ARE the majority now. The problems in CA started during the 1970s when Reagan implemented his voodoonomics philosophy in CA when he was governor and the passing of Proposition 13 (greatly supported by people who are Tulemutt's age because they pay less property taxes than before 1978). Even though passing Proposition 13 reduced the amount of funds available for our schools and ****ed up the state finances, who cares because property taxes are cheaper right? That's the mentality of the Baby Boomers who greatly supported passing Proposition 13.
But about blaming my people for the problems of the state, it's only scapegoating and frustration at being the minorities now.
Statewide, Latinos aren't a majority, they're a plurality (38%). That means they are still a minority, but the largest one.
Only when the Latino population reaches 51% will they be considered "majority".
And, being half Asian-half Latino myself, I don't think people are "blaming" Latinos as much as they are blaming the widespread problems brought on by illegal immigration. Most illegals operate on a cash-only economic basis and they hide lots of money. Therefor, they do not contribute to the tax base which goes to support schools, hospitals, universities, road work, etc., all throughout California, yet they make use of these services. So, yes, people have a right to complain about Illegal Immigrants.
Statewide, Latinos aren't a majority, they're a plurality (38%). That means they are still a minority, but the largest one.
Only when the Latino population reaches 51% will they be considered "majority".
And, being half Asian-half Latino myself, I don't think people are "blaming" Latinos as much as they are blaming the widespread problems brought on by illegal immigration. Most illegals operate on a cash-only economic basis and they hide lots of money. Therefor, they do not contribute to the tax base which goes to support schools, hospitals, universities, road work, etc., all throughout California, yet they make use of these services. So, yes, people have a right to complain about Illegal Immigrants.
Thats more of an American problem the tax problem than an illegal immigration problem. I have heard these excuses before as to why Arabs are able to start up a business without being as taxed as an American that wanted to start up a business. Americans have to realize if the they have so many loopholes in taxes, Americans are going to exploit their loopholes.
Statewide, Latinos aren't a majority, they're a plurality (38%). That means they are still a minority, but the largest one.
Only when the Latino population reaches 51% will they be considered "majority".
And, being half Asian-half Latino myself, I don't think people are "blaming" Latinos as much as they are blaming the widespread problems brought on by illegal immigration. Most illegals operate on a cash-only economic basis and they hide lots of money. Therefor, they do not contribute to the tax base which goes to support schools, hospitals, universities, road work, etc., all throughout California, yet they make use of these services. So, yes, people have a right to complain about Illegal Immigrants.
Everything they buy other than groceries (which no one pays taxes on), from a gallon of gas to a pair of flip flops, they pay tax on same as everybody else. Even their rent includes their landlord's calculation to cover his taxes. The only tax they don't pay if they are working under the table is income tax - which, safe to say, they wouldn't be paying much of, if anything, due to their income bracket anyway.
Illegals working under the table - just like legal citizens working under the table (of whom there are plenty) - also don't pay into federal Social Security. Except guess what? They don't qualify to receive SS benefits anyway, so moot point there. And most illegals DO get paid over the table and thus contribute to SS they are never able to collect. Which monies then go to pay for all legal citizens in the system. The amount of such contribution is very substantial. Estimates are 8% of the total $1.7 trillion fund is from illegals - that they will never collect. About $10 - $15 billion annually being added. http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily...124712696.html
I have to agree with BeauCharles. Too large of a drop in the middle class isn't good for the state as a whole.
Business isn't going to be able to run itself without middle class workers on the front lines. California has been lucky that a lot of the products its economy is benefiting from today happen to be software that can be made and distributed by software engineers but software can only take us so far.
Meanwhile physical goods may still be designed by well paid senior engineers but would require entry level engineers and skilled front line operators to reliably mass produce. Businesses aren't going to raise salaries to adequately match the cost of living. Then there's the ever-present trades and infrastructure related work that executives in a suit probably aren't planning to do themselves either.
Even supposing we could let California transform into a giant playground for the wealthy. Remember the experiment in Brave New World where they built a city populated exclusively by Alphas? Granted it might make for fascinating entertainment if we could capture it on TV.
Brave New World. Remarkably prescient, no?
Listen fellas, I didn't exactly disagree with BeauCharles. No, seriously. I asked a defining question. And then I agreed with him on one possible definition. Now, by doing so, I also inferred other demographics wouldn't suffer and the state would be fine. Which is also true - depending on further refinements of definitions. This whole issue we are tangentially considering is really interesting - and full of subtitles and complexities. The simplest summation is that the universe is ALWAYS self-regulating. Whether we like the universe's regulation or not. It ALWAYS does as it pleases.
California will be fine, whatever comes to pass. Because it is so desirable. If one kind of economy and infrastructure doesn't fit, another will. If it becomes a playground for the wealthy - and I am certain that is vastly over simplistic - there will be a point at which the wealthy will have to forcefully accommodate infrastructure and economics that will support their desired lifestyles. Which they can afford to pay for. They WILL get what they want. That is if the entire human race doesn't self-destruct in self absorbed idiocy. Which looks to me like it has great potential for doing.
But also consider that a perpetual path of growth isn't healthy for the state either. It's killing this place.
"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell." - Edward Abbey.
Listen fellas, I didn't exactly disagree with BeauCharles. No, seriously. I asked a defining question. And then I agreed with him on one possible definition. Now, by doing so, I also inferred other demographics wouldn't suffer and the state would be fine. Which is also true - depending on further refinements of definitions. This whole issue we are tangentially considering is really interesting - and full of subtitles and complexities. The simplest summation is that the universe is ALWAYS self-regulating. Whether we like the universe's regulation or not. It ALWAYS does as it pleases.
California will be fine, whatever comes to pass. Because it is so desirable. If one kind of economy and infrastructure doesn't fit, another will. If it becomes a playground for the wealthy - and I am certain that is vastly over simplistic - there will be a point at which the wealthy will have to forcefully accommodate infrastructure and economics that will support their desired lifestyles. Which they can afford to pay for. They WILL get what they want. That is if the entire human race doesn't self-destruct in self absorbed idiocy. Which looks to me like it has great potential for doing.
But also consider that a perpetual path of growth isn't healthy for the state either. It's killing this place.
"Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of a cancer cell." - Edward Abbey.
Indeed, it's like a manual for what I don't want to be California's end point!
Largely in agreement now. I posted my previous reply in post #38 before seeing and reading your post at #36.
You were both correct: California has seen an influx of incomes in the upper middle class and above while a good portion of those already here who started in the lower middle class have seen their incomes drop.
Regarding growth: Poorly managed (meaning at an average/mediocre level of competency or below) growth is worse than no growth and this is what we've frequently seen all over California, so I don't disagree with your current observations. I also believe that well managed growth can be made to be better than no growth, at least for a while longer under ideal conditions. Yes, more optimism is required! It would take good leadership and vision to pull it off cleanly but it is possible with present day technology.
Regarding self regulation: Agreed that even people self-regulate to the extent that they can. The weakness I want to point out is when people self-regulate according to "bad" information, which is the definition itself is debatable for any particular subject. For example, the vaccinations thread covering what people chose to do after picking up a dose of bad info. Well, on second thought the current aftermath might be a form of self-regulation too. Would have been better if it didn't come to that.
Back on topic: The fascination with white areas might have to do with over-simplified impressions and a desire to be someplace with a greater quantity of perceived social order. People neglect to consider that income comes first when it comes to low crime neighborhoods. Then there are disadvantages to excessive social order, like if a neighbor doesn't like something in your front yard and tries to leverage the HOA into forcing you to change it.
My town is not diverse. It's 77% hispanic, but we anglos don't really care much. We all seem to get along pretty well. Our cultures are fairly similar actually; family oriented, good work ethic, religion (at least in this town). We all coexist and mingle well.
Also, Tule you are correct that many illegals are paid over the counter and contributing into social security; however, they are only able to do that using someone else's SS number and danged if one of them didn't use mine. Not good, not good, NOT good!! There are so many nifty things a person can do with your SS number. I just about had a total breakdown trying to get that fixed and the soc sec admin could care less if someone else is using your number.....they're like: "Oh well."
Also, Tule you are correct that many illegals are paid over the counter and contributing into social security; however, they are only able to do that using someone else's SS number and danged if one of them didn't use mine. Not good, not good, NOT good!! There are so many nifty things a person can do with your SS number. I just about had a total breakdown trying to get that fixed and the soc sec admin could care less if someone else is using your number.....they're like: "Oh well."
Yeah, that sucks. But pretty sure I didn't suggest that was okay. Just observed that illegals do in fact pay taxes. Which also doesn't make the whole mess okay.
Because they're mad that we ARE the majority now. The problems in CA started during the 1970s when Reagan implemented his voodoonomics philosophy in CA when he was governor and the passing of Proposition 13 (greatly supported by people who are Tulemutt's age because they pay less property taxes than before 1978). Even though passing Proposition 13 reduced the amount of funds available for our schools and ****ed up the state finances, who cares because property taxes are cheaper right? That's the mentality of the Baby Boomers who greatly supported passing Proposition 13.
But about blaming my people for the problems of the state, it's only scapegoating and frustration at being the minorities now.
Well, 32.5% of us who voted didn't agree with it and likely, many if not most of those were homeowners like my, then, wife and I. We thought it ill-considered because of what it would do to school and local funding so although we would have benefitted from it, and did, it just didn't seem worth it. True to form, the state never did equalize school funding. However, Prop. 13 did contain the requirement that local or state tax increases require a 2/3 vote to pass and while it hasn't totally "cured" the tax-and-spend problems in Sacramento and elsewhere, it has slowed them down a mite despite the "ruling" party's best efforts to tax the state into oblivion.
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Granted it might make for fascinating entertainment if we could capture it on TV.
