An Idea If The Drought Gets Worse (Salinas, Saratoga: lawyers, homes)

[Wells5]

I've noticed a lot of stored railroad tank cars where I currently live (northeast USA). They are being stored because they don't meet USDOT current safety standards and also because eastern refineries have begun importing oil from Africa and the Middle East because it's cheaper than the Bakken.

There are unit oil, ethanol, coal, salt and grain trains- why not a unit water train? A 125 car water train could carry 4,350,000 gallons to the parched Central Valley towns or to the Salinas Valley vegetable fields or to Stacy Keach's shrubbery . They could load up on the Columbia River. Below is a post from a railfan website.

"Saratoga & North Creek Railway (New York State) plans to bring hundreds of out-of-service train oil and ethanol tank cars to the region to store them after they are taken out of service because of new federal safety regulations.The cars would be stored on railroad sidings near the hamlet of Tahawus in Essex County, in a remote area near former stone quarries in the town of Newcomb.Ed Ellis, president of the railway and its parent company, Iowa Pacific Holdings, informed leaders from Warren County and the town of Corinth — which own the rail line on which SNCRR operates — of the proposal Tuesday. He said he wanted to let the county and town know because residents will likely see the tankers heading north on the line in coming months.“It will be logical that people will ask, ‘What’s in those cars?’ “ Ellis said. “The answer is, ‘They’re empty.’ “Ellis said 300 to 500 empty tanker cars could be stored on miles of rail sidings along the remote rail line that the company bought two years ago, potentially producing “seven-figure” revenue for SNCRR.County supervisors, Corinth board members and their municipal lawyers quizzed him on details, asking about cleaning, security, how long they would be stored and the county’s liability.Ellis said tens of thousands of tank cars have been taken out of service in recent months because of changes in safety regulations, and owners are looking for places to store them instead of retrofitting them to meet the new safety standards. They have value as scrap metal if they are not put back into service, so they will not remain there indefinitely, he said.The cars may have a small amount of material inside them, which will require that hazardous materials placards be placed on them. But all will be inspected and some cleaned (clarified) before being brought to the region, Ellis said. The cost to clean the cars, about $3,500 per car, may mean that not all will be completely cleaned, he said."

[sourdough]

When a $ can be made, it will happen.

[Tulemutt]

Can't wait to drink water shipped in an old oil tank car.

[Wells5]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Can't wait to drink water shipped in an old oil tank car.

How about flushing the toilet with the stuff? Californians are not taking this drought seriously enough. What will happen when you turn on the faucet and nothing comes out?

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Wells5

How about flushing the toilet with the stuff? Californians are not taking this drought seriously enough. What will happen when you turn on the faucet and nothing comes out?

As discussed many times here already. infrastructure would have to be built for grey water delivery to homes & commercial buildings. That takes a lot of money. Unless the Guv can figure out another way to bring in more taxes, it's not gonna happen. Though it should. Because people aren't going to drive their wagons to the train, to pick up a load of grey water to take home.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Wells5

How about flushing the toilet with the stuff? Californians are not taking this drought seriously enough. What will happen when you turn on the faucet and nothing comes out?

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

As discussed many times here already. infrastructure would have to be built for grey water delivery to homes & commercial buildings. That takes a lot of money. Unless the Guv can figure out another way to bring in more taxes, it's not gonna happen. Though it should. Because people aren't going to drive their wagons to the train, to pick up a load of grey water to take home.

Roger that, Ruth.

Wells, while there would be some advantage to separating water supplies for drinking from those used for utility, it would be cost prohibitive and take more time than the drought will last anyway.

That said, toilets, which use nearly 1/3 of average household water consumption, could be outlawed, replaced by composting units with "night soil" municipal pick up service in very short order. It would also be quite cost efficient since "night soil" can be used in a variety of productive ways to produce quality soil, fertilizers, and methane for energy.

But it'll never happen because our culture is too fecalphobic.

[LoriBee62]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

But it'll never happen because our culture is too fecalphobic.

Oh no we're not. If these forums have taught you anything, it should be that American's are quite comfortable shi++ing on each other.

[DriveNotCommute]

Originally Posted by Wells5

How about flushing the toilet with the stuff? Californians are not taking this drought seriously enough. What will happen when you turn on the faucet and nothing comes out?

I thought it's an interesting idea but after some thought, it really won't work. sourdough does have a point in that it'll work if the price is right but there are a lot of hurdles.

For starters, municipally provided recycled graywater is usually treated to some degree and have water standards that crude oil-laced water would not pass. In addition, even self-contained graywater systems for individual homes and businesses (ie. graywater systems not connected to a municipal line) have common sense rules associated with it and where regulations are being written up by many states along those lines.

Crude oil contains volatile toxic compounds. If people flushed toilets with the stuff, the oil residue will contain substances that will waft out of the liquid and pollute the air. Residents would end up inhaling this over the long term.

At the same time, the other major use for recycled water is irrigation. Irrigating edible foods with non-potable is already prohibited by regulations as well as plain common sense. However even for non-edible vegetation, I don't think the idea of irrigation with a miniature oil spill will really work either. Nobody should want any amount of uncontrolled crude oil on the ground.

Even if we ignored health concerns and used the crude-polluted water for flushing toilets, that crude will flow into the sewage treatment plant with the wastewater. That treatment plant will see an increased cost in removing elevated levels of chemicals associated with that crude. They can't just ignore it because that would mean passing the stuff out into the environment. Not that they would be allowed to ignore failing the results of their QC checks after treatment to begin with.

Some small towns might be desperate enough to want to try using crude-tainted water but then we would have to consider that they don't have the infrastructure to handle any graywater to begin with. They lack the money to invest in and run facilities that can clean out the crude, even to a level acceptable for graywater use. They also lack the money needed to dig out and install a secondary system of pipes to provide graywater to the town's residences and businesses. The residents themselves are unlikely to have the money to install graywater plumbing in their homes even if graywater from the city were to become available. This infrastructure problem is basically the point that Ruth4Truth brought up earlier. My twist is that the money required to build it is money that could just go into buying water from closer sources.

Having the faucets literally dry up is the extreme end game and is pretty unlikely, but it is the more interesting outcome to talk about. Californians in general are taking this pretty seriously considering we have people at each others' throats with drought shaming and a verbal civil war over agriculture vs. city water use.

Since water is tied to human health, this would be one of those things where being cheap with the transportation will not pay off. In the big picture, the cost of a bunch of rail cars is probably minimal compared to the total cost of such an operation anyway. Therefore following through with reusing oil cars to save a little money would be penny-wise and pound foolish.

Your statement about a 125 car train moving 4,350,000 gallons of water cargo is pretty appealing. Not sure how to make that work with former oil cars though. I don't want to come across as looking a gift horse in the mouth but some things just need to be done properly from beginning to end.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by LoriBee62

Oh no we're not. If these forums have taught you anything, it should be that American's are quite comfortable shi++ing on each other.

Lmao. There's that alright.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by DriveNotCommute

some things just need to be done properly from beginning to end.

Boy howdy. I could insert some great jokes here referencing the food to fertilizer chain. But I'll try to refrain and just say that is exactly the premise of the book "Humanure Handbook". The Humanure Handbook - Center of the Humanure Composting Universe

Extraordinary the way we flush 1/3 of our precious fresh, treated water down the sewer instead of recapturing the value of our phase of natural organic cycling.