Gov Brown Signs $15 CA min wage law RIP California Businesses (Los Angeles: 2014, insurance)

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Lol. More balderdash. Texas consumers aren't under-served now. Therefore: if there is an exodus of California businesses to Texas without a commensurate exodus of consumers moving with them from here to Texas, then, obviously, all the relocated California businesses will do is dilute the existing Texas market. There is no PROFIT advantage there, eh?

To make your prediction pay out, California consumers WOULD have to drive to Texas for their burgers.

Well not sure if you've been keeping up with demographic trends..but most of the fastest growing cities in the U.S are in Texas actually.

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

They ALL need jobs. College grads just as much as anyone else. You are picking which people are more deserving than others? That doesn't solve an unemployment condition.

Yes, I realize they ALL need jobs...my point is that this massive increase in minimum wage will actually hurt those it is intended to help...the undereducated aka those without college degrees.

College grads will be competing with them more for those jobs than they do now.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Well not sure if you've been keeping up with demographic trends..but most of the fastest growing cities in the U.S are in Texas actually.

Doesn't change the truth of my statement in the slightest. The market there is being fully served by existing expansion. Flooding it with more doesn't increase the rate of market growth. Do you think the existing franchises will stop to accommodate California businesses moving in?

[Chuck5000]

Classic scare story. "If we raise the minimum wage, THIS TIME it will kill jobs!!!!"

This cry is raised every single time. It never seems to happen. Gee, I wonder if it could be that it's based on bat-turd theories of economics?

If you don't like the minimum wage, go publicly campaign against it. Try organizing voters. Find your co-believers. They're called right-wing Republicans, and they are losing everywhere outside of the south. This is one reason why.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

Yes, I realize they ALL need jobs...my point is that this massive increase in minimum wage will actually hurt those it is intended to help...the undereducated aka those without college degrees.

College grads will be competing with them more for those jobs than they do now.

You make zero sense, jm. If the undereducated are better served by earning less than it costs them to live, thereby forcing them to utilize welfare to get by, which welfare is thus a taxpayer subsidization of corporate profits --- then fewer college graduates will have jobs. And they, in turn, will need to rely on welfare.

There's a total number of people looking to work to survive. Whether they have degrees or not is immaterial.

Look, the days when these burger jobs were designed to be filled by pimply-faced high-school kids and dropouts are over. That was then. This is now, where we are automating ourselves out of employment for the masses. Now, all kinds of people, skilled and unskilled, educated and undereducated, are competing for a shrinking professional / general employment future.

Cheap fast food businesses were structured to thrive on low wage-paying opportunity. Now that is changing. So the fast food and other low wage businesses have to retool their strategies. Now, fast food is going to become less cheap. Menu options will have to expand to include other, more diverse sales items. And the wheels on the bus go round and round.

[jm1982]

I make zero sense?... yet you cited an article that stated an increase to $15 per hour minimum wage would only raise menu prices 4.2%..and still stick by that statement.

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

I make zero sense?... yet you cited an article that stated an increase to $15 per hour minimum wage would only raise menu prices 4.2%..and still stick by that statement.

I didn't cite that article, 2sleepy did. But anyway, what does that have to do with what I said? Do you mean because you refuse to believe the financial analysis of such a small prices increase?

Got news for you, that article is not the only report / study that comes to the same conclusion. There are many. Do you want me to look them up for you?

And you didn't address the point I made at all. If you want to dispute do so.

[jm1982]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

I didn't cite that article, 2sleepy did. But anyway, what does that have to do with what I said? Do you mean because you refuse to believe the financial analysis of such a small prices increase?

Got news for you, that article is not the only report / study that comes to the same conclusion. There are many. Do you want me to look them up for you?

And you didn't address the point I made at all. If you want to dispute do so.

The educated and highly paid 'experts' have been wrong many times. Remember the financial crisis?
It's early to say for Seattle , but unemployment has risen. Meanwhile the economy and unemployment are doing better OUTSIDE the city of Seattle...hmmm...I wonder why

I'll take reality and real numbers over theoretical speculation of what "might" happen anytime.

Yes there is the fantasy that you and others have of how great things will be under $15 hr min wage..and then the reality.

I mean you have actually resulted to calling struggling business owners "wussies" if they move?
Would you call a min wager a wussy if their rent went up drastically and they had to move too?

Yes real men and women stay in an environment that they can't afford to do business or live in, and stay and "fight" LOL.
Are you serious?

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by jm1982

The educated and highly paid 'experts' have been wrong many times. Remember the financial crisis?
It's early to say for Seattle , but unemployment has risen. Meanwhile the economy and unemployment are doing better OUTSIDE the city of Seattle...hmmm...I wonder why

I'll take reality and real numbers over theoretical speculation of what "might" happen anytime.

Yes there is the fantasy that you and others have of how great things will be under $15 hr min wage..and then the reality.

I mean you have actually resulted to calling struggling business owners "wussies" if they move?
Would you call a min wager a wussy if their rent went up drastically and they had to move too?

Yes real men and women stay in an environment that they can't afford to do business or live in, and stay and "fight" LOL.
Are you serious?

Now jm, you're just flat out making things up. I didn't say business owners are wussies for moving from where "they can't afford to do business". I said, "where they have a thriving business with market demand that experiences a surmountable competitive challenge". And yeah, under those conditions any businessman who is afraid to rise to a manageable challenge is a wuss. You bet I'm serious. And I've been a small business owner. Betting you haven't, eh? Least not for long if you ever were.

Highly paid experts been wrong in the past? Sure. Lotsa times. I haven't been relying on reports from highly paid prognosticators here though. I've been relying on clear evidence from markets all around the world. I haven't quoted expert opinions. I've reported factual statistics.

And, finally, I have not presented any "fantasy of how great thngs are going to be under $15 minimum wage". I've simply demonstrated that your, and others', fearful prognostications are not founded in logic or reality as you present them. There are certainly unknowns in how this will play out. But your laments don't "prove" your case for panic and demise.

[2nd trick op]

The lifeboat is going to get smaller, and an increasing percentage of economic idiots are going to fight over the space in it. I'll be happy to add a rock or two to the load; Bon voyage, my children, and write -- if you find real work!