Prop 57 - California Nov Ballot (sex offenders, education, teach)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by Finper

That's what juvenile hall is for. If your a stupid adult I have no sympathy.

I haven't said a word about "having sympathy". "Sympathy" isn't required. Intelligent programs that benefit society and do not boomerang back on us all is what is required. Carte blanche incarceration protocols are neither affordable nor do they create a safer, better society. All three of which points are precisely the focus of all you who are objecting here.

As I said, many responding to this thread have no idea who is being incarcerated. Including you, Finper. A very sizeable percentage of non-stupid adults make errors under pressure. There are a lot of very intelligent people in prison. There are, in spite of what you want to believe, a lot of very moral, ethical, and honorable people in prison alongside a lot of seriously evil and deeply flawed individuals.

The productive trick for society here, is figuring out how to separate the types and deal with them differently.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by expatCA

OK, so how do the people of CA fix the problem of such crimes? Just let them keep happening because the people committing them do not want to stop?

Ship them off to The Philippines and let President Rodrigo Duterte deal with them.

[SportyandMisty]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

There will always be crime, I'm not sure of any place in the world where there is no crime. The state spends 11 billion a year on it's prison system, maybe if we found other ways to deal with non-violent offenders we could divert some of that money to education and job creation and see if that reduces crime?

Much of that 11 billion is in the form of gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care for the prison guard union, which in turn bribes State Legislators.

Transition those employees to 401K style retirement plans and that will cut billions out of the equation.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Finper

I just watched 2 ads for yes on 57 and neither mentioned the Feds releasing our prisoners. You'd think it would be a good scare tactic... hmmm .

I have no idea what they are saying in those ads, I haven't seen any on TV here but here's a source for you: "Gov. Jerry Brown and other proponents... say Proposition 57 is necessary to keep the prison population permanently below a cap imposed in 2011..."

Originally Posted by Finper

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. We already have shop lifters running wild with no threat of punishment we don't need any more violent offenders doing the same

Not punishing people for misdemeanors is the fault of your local police department, not prop 47, that is a choice made locally, if you don't like it go to your City Council meetings and let them know about it. Raising the felony threshold for shoplifting to $950 does not impact the incidence of that crime
• Raising the felony theft threshold has no impact on overall property crime or larceny rates.
• States that increased their thresholds reported roughly the same average decrease in crime as the 27 states that did not change their theft laws.
• The amount of a state’s felony theft threshold—whether it is $500, $1,000, $2,000, or more—is not correlated with its property crime and larceny rates.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by SportyandMisty

Much of that 11 billion is in the form of gold-plated pensions & Cadillac health care for the prison guard union, which in turn bribes State Legislators. Transition those employees to 401K style retirement plans and that will cut billions out of the equation.

I don't disagree that California prison guards are overpaid, and I know for a fact that they got both peace officer status and a 90% pension after 30 years because of contributions to legislators and we need to take the money out of politics so that doesn't keep happening, but there is no way to remove their contractually guaranteed pensions and give them a 401k instead, so let's get real. Their salary and benefits are fixed costs, as is the physical maintenance of prisons and the associated federally mandated prison health care costs - so the only thing you can reduce is the number of people in prison, which should be done thoughtfully and carefully.

[CaliforniaGal]

My Neighborhood Watch Captain who deals with Los Angeles County SHeriffs on behalf of the residents in Wiseburn sent this video to me. Take a look!

Torrance PD - Money Bags ( Ab-109 and Prop 47) this is what we are dealing with. I believe in honesty especially when dealing with lives. Forget about party affiliation because that makes no difference - we are all affected and should be concerned.

https://youtu.be/WksmrD6U6Dg

[Flovis]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

San Diego most recently, splitting time in Morro Bay as well. Previously in the Bay Area since the late 60's.

But, as Flovis writes (quoted below), we can't assess the truest picture in such a short time frame. Your anecdotal perceptions really don't qualify as any statistical study.

True. And as of now, there is no statistically significant uptick in crime that can be identified as a result of 47. There are examples of a few communities where police have deliberately created protocol intended to skew 47.


This is funny. The first quote you say "we don't know yet." Then the next post you contradict yourself by citing unverified claims of crimes on the increase as a result of 47. Which is it? "We don't know yet?" Or is it "Criminals seem to be more brazen since 47 passed. Enough is enough?"

We don't have enough stats but my intuition is that prop 47 was the catalyst.
I'll be proven right or wrong in just a little while. Cheers

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Flovis

We don't have enough stats but my intuition is that prop 47 was the catalyst.
I'll be proven right or wrong in just a little while. Cheers

It doesn't matter how it turns out, there is no room in California prisons to put people in there for shoplifting an Xbox or getting caught with a gram of cocaine, it just isn't going to happen. I think prop 47 will be amended at some point but not in regards to the threshold for felony shoplifting or drug possession, the biggest problem I see with it is with check & credit card fraud which is not charged as a felony even if there are multiple crimes with the same victim, they can be charged as separate misdemeanors but not as a felony even if the cumulative amount is > $950.

[Flovis]

An Orange County judge gives his two cents on prop 47/57



www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUBoDV13pGY

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

It doesn't matter how it turns out, there is no room in California prisons to put people in there for shoplifting an Xbox or getting caught with a gram of cocaine, it just isn't going to happen. I think prop 47 will be amended at some point but not in regards to the threshold for felony shoplifting or drug possession, the biggest problem I see with it is with check & credit card fraud which is not charged as a felony even if there are multiple crimes with the same victim, they can be charged as separate misdemeanors but not as a felony even if the cumulative amount is > $950.

My understanding is that prop57 will release individuals who have used a firearm, drive by shootists, arsonists, rapists, child abusers and others who are violent. Seems it isn't just shop lifters and such.