Covered California Rate Increase 12.5% for 2018 (Santa Rosa: lawyer, private schools, salary)

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

It is never about everyone, especially those who have paid, it is about self.

Oh, I will be 71 in a couple of months. I have paid taxes since 1964, and of course Medicare since 1966 when it began.

Ditto, I began working when I graduated from High School in 1964, well actually I picked prunes for two seasons before that (I hate prunes to this day)

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Because it is guaranteed. The US Gov't took money from us (and still is in my case) for over 50 years with the promise I would get the care.

If you don't like it come up with a plan that takes care of ....... you, and does not hurt anyone else.

You in effect want to take money from those no longer able to work (In general, as I still am working), created the vast majority of the jobs that now exist, and paid and paid and paid and give it to ............... you and "Job creators" who have done far less, not to the people who have paid for everything the Gov't has then paid for, for decades. You must be a Democrat.

And now you're getting all of that money back in the form of healthcare and then some. Your overuse of healthcare has budget ramifications that affect me and everyone else in the workforce paying for that open ended guarantee. Oh, and those "job creators" pay the vast, vast majority of income taxes in this country so give them a little more respect. They've paid far more than you to fund our society, they deserve a tax break.

I bet you support pensions too where the rest of us are taxed so some people can enjoy a lifetime guaranteed benefit.

A Democrat? Me? I'm talking about Republican policy here bud. Do you think that Medicare should stay an open ended entitlement for everyone? I thought you were a conservative but now after hearing you defend entitlements and market distortions like Prop 8 I think you're just a typical F you, got mine voter. Don't pretend to have any sort of ideological consistency.

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

Ditto, I began working when I graduated from High School in 1964, well actually I picked prunes for two seasons before that (I hate prunes to this day)

My grandmother worked in a tomato cannery and to this day will not eat ketchup. I love prunes

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

You have not paid enough Medicare taxes (even since 1966) to cover the costs of your healthcare for the rest of your life.

And you got that info where? Because the reality is quite different

"Under the assumption of workforce participation starting at age 30, a high-wage male will receive 83 cents in Medicare Part A benefits for every dollar paid in Medicare payroll taxes, and a max-wage male can only expect 55 cents in Medicare benefits for every dollar he paid in Medicare taxes. When combining both Medicare and Social Security, the workers under the two higher wage categories would still expect less in total benefits than what they paid in payroll taxes for both programs."

LIFETIME TAXPAYER CONTRIBUTIONS AND BENEFITS OF MEDICARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY - Guo - 2017 - Contemporary Economic Policy - Wiley Online Library

nice try but no cigar

[shooting4life]

Originally Posted by 2sleepy

And you got that info where? Because the reality is quite different

"Under the assumption of workforce participation starting at age 30, a high-wage male will receive 83 cents in Medicare Part A benefits for every dollar paid in Medicare payroll taxes, and a max-wage male can only expect 55 cents in Medicare benefits for every dollar he paid in Medicare taxes. When combining both Medicare and Social Security, the workers under the two higher wage categories would still expect less in total benefits than what they paid in payroll taxes for both programs."

LIFETIME TAXPAYER CONTRIBUTIONS AND BENEFITS OF MEDICARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY - Guo - 2017 - Contemporary Economic Policy - Wiley Online Library

nice try but no cigar

What percent of the work force is high wage males? My guess is it is less than 15%.

Nice try but no cigar.

[TheFlats]

Sorry 2Sleepy but those figures assume "high wage" and "max wage" males, only count Part A benefits, and include employer paid taxes as dollars paid by the recipient. It's a progressive program, only those at the higher end are receiving less than they put in (assuming they don't have higher than average health care needs).

Edit: shooting4life beat me to it. Hey shooting, answer my question from earlier, what specific fixes to Obamacare would you like the Democrats to work with the Republicans on?

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

You have not paid enough Medicare taxes (even since 1966) to cover the costs of your healthcare for the rest of your life.

Medicare recipients don't receive health care for nothing; not only have they paid into it, they pay a monthly amount based on their income.

That's why I support the plan Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney put forth in 2012 to voucher-ize Medicare in order to control the costs.

Paul Ryan (and his billionaire wife) know nothing about Joe taxpayer who might have to struggle to pay his mortgage or his health insurance. He's the LAST person most of us would want deciding our future, economic or otherwise.

We need to reduce Medicare spending to be able to put more money into our crumbling military and...

Our crumbling military?

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by shooting4life

What percent of the work force is high wage males? My guess is it is less than 15%. Nice try but no cigar.

Why don't you read the study, then we can talk about it?

[TheFlats]

Originally Posted by CA4Now

Medicare recipients don't receive health care for nothing; not only have they paid into it, they pay a monthly amount based on their income.

Paul Ryan (and his billionaire wife) know nothing about Joe taxpayer who might have to struggle to pay his mortgage or his health insurance. He's the LAST person most of us would want deciding our future, economic or otherwise.

Our crumbling military?

1. It's a philosophical issue. Do you believe that people should be required to pay for others healthcare needs. Except for a small slice of relatively healthy lifetime high income earners the Silent generation and Baby Boom generation will not put enough of their pay into Medicare to cover the costs they will incur over their lifetime.

What, you think it's American to ask people to help other Americans who can't pay their own way? Maybe it's more American to let everyone take care of themselves and get government off our backs. Charity will cover the gap.

2. Paul Ryan's wife isn't a billionaire and Paul grew up with modest means. He's super wonky and articulate though so I trust he'll do what's best for all of us.

3. Our crumbling military, yes. Haven't you heard Romney and Trump explain how devastated it became under Obama and how we really, really need to increase it's funding? Especially on weapons programs like the F35 and LCS. Because we might have to fight a conventional war against China or Russia at any moment.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by TheFlats

Sorry 2Sleepy but those figures assume "high wage" and "max wage" males, only count Part A benefits, and include employer paid taxes as dollars paid by the recipient. It's a progressive program, only those at the higher end are receiving less than they put in (assuming they don't have higher than average health care needs).

"The low-wage worker earns 45% of the average wage, while the high-wage worker earns 160% of the average wage. The tax-max wage worker earns at the taxable maximum for Social Security every year. Take year 2013 as an example, a low-wage worker's annual salary is $20,308, which is at the 38th percentile rank among all U.S. individuals with incomes; the annual salary of an average-wage worker is $45,129 and is at the 70th percentile rank;2 $72,206 is the annual salary of a high-wage earner and is ranked at the 86th percentile; and a tax-max wage worker earns $113,700 in 2013 and is at the 94th percentile rank among all U.S. individuals with incomes. "

The first of these differences is in restricting Medicare benefits to Part A. This assumption permits a consistent comparison of how much benefits can be expected from taxes paid. Since payroll taxes don't fund Part B and D, it is simply unfair to consider whether payroll taxes are sufficient to cover a part of the program that other sources fund.

My payroll taxes more than paid for part A benefits I will receive from medicare, feel better now?
LIFETIME TAXPAYER CONTRIBUTIONS AND BENEFITS OF MEDICARE AND SOCIAL SECURITY - Guo - 2017 - Contemporary Economic Policy - Wiley Online Library

[TheFlats]

My selected salient points:

Originally Posted by Wiley Article

...For Medicare, the 2.9% payroll tax levied on employers and workers is only used to fund Part A of the program (Hospital Insurance, inpatient care, skilled nursing facility care, home health care, and hospice care).4 Parts B and D are funded by premiums paid by Medicare enrollees and general fund revenue, rather than the payroll tax...

...Today, Part A accounts for only about 44% of total Medicare benefits...

...That is, an average-earning male will receive $1.05 in Medicare Part A benefits for every dollar paid in Medicare taxes, and a high-wage earning male will only receive 77 cents for every dollar he paid in Medicare taxes...

...The cohort reaching age 65 in 2000 has a slightly different story because Medicare did not start collecting payroll taxes until 1966 when the workers in this cohort were age 31, and because the tax rates were significantly lower before the 1980s. In other words, this cohort might have contributed to Medicare taxes for both fewer years and at lower rates than the later cohorts. Thus, when a single male would receive $81,000 from Medicare Part A benefits, many workers paid less than this amount for Medicare taxes over their lifetime, except for the max-wage earners...