President Suggests he might pull ICE agents from Sanctuary States? (Berkeley: unemployed, deed)

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by max210

Are you saying we need to offer citizenship to fill labor shortages for fruit pickers?

Didn't say a word about “citizenship”. If you read without prejudice toward the writer you'd not ask that question.

[expatCA]

Originally Posted by max210

Are you saying we need to offer citizenship to fill labor shortages for fruit pickers?

Maybe they could offer jobs to the out of work homeless. Not the druggies, etc, but those who lost jobs. Let them show they want to work.

[BB_210]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Heh. Obviously, the “pathways to citizenship” aren't working in the cases cited for agricultural field work, are they? If they were, there wouldn't be a severe shortage now would there?

I also don't agree that “immigration reform” is code for “amnesty”. Depends on how the reform is to be structured.

And lastly, I'm an advocate for “qualification quotas” and very limited immigration of any kind. So you can take your immigration ire out on other posters who you assume are for open-ish borders.

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Didn't say a word about “citizenship”. If you read without prejudice toward the writer you'd not ask that question.

I'm quoting the words but read the sentence for context. What other thing could you be implying?

People don't deserve citizenship because we have a labor shortage in a particular industry that doesn't require a skill or education. Call me a racist if you like.

[BB_210]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Maybe they could offer jobs to the out of work homeless. Not the druggies, etc, but those who lost jobs. Let them show they want to work.

I agree, and the employer will pay accordingly if the market works like it's supposed to without outside influence. But farmers know there's a labor force willing to undercut everyone and can maximize their profits.

There was this cartoon I saw (I think it was Johnny Bravo) where the bad guy came up to his evil lair project and he said surprisingly "what?! These guys are Mexican! I can't afford to pay these guys!"

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by max210

I'm quoting the words but read the sentence for context. What other thing could you be implying?

People don't deserve citizenship because we have a labor shortage in a particular industry that doesn't require a skill or education. Call me a racist if you like.

Um yeah. Bubba, those words in quotes? They're YOUR words ... I quoted them back to you. I didn't “imply” anything other than immigration isn't working as legally structured. You're the one making connections to citizenship.

Why would you think I might call you a racist? Again, you have a conception about me that fits some narrative running in your head that you really haven't looked at carefully. I am not an ideologue. Ideologies are for lazy intellects.

[BB_210]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

Um yeah. Bubba, those words in quotes? They're YOUR words ... I quoted them back to you. I didn't “imply” anything other than immigration isn't working as legally structured. You're the one making connections to citizenship.

Why would you think I might call you a racist? Again, you have a conception about me that fits some narrative running in your head that you really haven't looked at carefully. I am not an ideologue. Ideologies are for lazy intellects.

Immigration is working just fine. You're saying is not because farmers can't get enough below legal labor market fruit pickers? Please clarify.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Tulemutt

No it's not the same one bit. California has every probability of working through its liabilities based on its resources. So does the nation respectively - with one critical difference: who's in charge. In either case that can change for better or worse. But, at the moment, California has a fiscally responsible governor ... and the nation is being run by a moron who has run his companies into bankruptcy several times in the past and who now championed a new round of bigger than ever liability increases while shortening his tax base. Brilliant.

Meanwhile we see that California's liabilities are, on any relative scale, no where near the worst of the states'. Middle of the pack really. With more potential to pay.

The State was finally able to retire Schwarzenegger's 15 billion dollar bond debt in 2015. Gotta love those fiscally conservative Republicans huh?
California Pays Off $15 Billion In Costly Debt From Schwarzenegger Era « CBS Sacramento

[Tulemutt]

Originally Posted by max210

Immigration is working just fine. You're saying is not because farmers can't get enough below legal labor market fruit pickers? Please clarify.

Lol. “Below market rate”? The growers can't get enough field workers. (Not just “fruit pickers, btw.). Period. Most Americans won't / can't do that work. Not in sufficient numbers to meet demand.

What makes you say “below market rate”? What do you think field workers are paid?

”Many farmworkers are paid an hourly rate higher than California's minimum wage—$10.00 or $10.50 an hour in 2017, depending on whether the employer has 25 or less, or 26 or more employees, respectively—and workers who are paid piece rates, which reflect how much they pick or prune, often earn $12 to $14 an hour.Mar 21, 2017 ...

... A report in the LA Times last week explored why farmers in the Central Valley are having a hard time finding enough workers, despite reportedly paying up to 40 percent more than the California minimum wage. “Today, farmworkers in the state earn about $30,000 a year if they work full time—about half the overall average pay in California,” notes the Times. “Most work fewer hours.” The second sentence here is key: most farmworkers are not employed 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year, so most earn far less than $30,000 per year. In fact, in 2015, workers who received their primary earnings from agricultural employers earned an average of $17,500—less than 60 percent of the average annual wage of a full-time equivalent (FTE) worker in California.

Many farmworkers are paid an hourly rate higher than California’s minimum wage—$10.00 or $10.50 an hour in 2017, depending on whether the employer has 25 or less, or 26 or more employees, respectively—and workers who are paid piece rates, which reflect how much they pick or prune, often earn $12 to $14 an hour. Many young male farmworkers aim to earn $100 a day, which is $12.50 an hour for an eight-hour day and $14.30 an hour for a seven-hour day. But farmworkers typically are not employed in agriculture year-round. Many farm jobs are seasonal, and few workers migrate between California farming regions—those who pick vegetables in southern California deserts between January and May rarely move to the San Joaquin Valley to pick fruit between July and September

Farmworker wages in California: Large gap between full-time equivalent and actual earnings | Economic Policy Institute

... it goes on.

Few American citizens will work the cycles and conditions. The pay isn't the only issue. The pay is higher than minimum wage. Yet lots of Americans are working for the lower minimum wage.

If you don't understand the issues it's not helpful to go around spouting off misinformation. you're just regurgitating what you hear from ignorant ideologue talking heads. Learn for yourself. Don't be intellectually lazy and gullible.

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by expatCA

Maybe they could offer jobs to the out of work homeless. Not the druggies, etc, but those who lost jobs. Let them show they want to work.

My cousin has an almond farm, she was hiring through the H-2A program but finally gave up when 3 years in a row they didn't provide half the workers she had contracted for and when they arrived they showed up when the work was almost done but she had to pay 3/4 of their salary for the time they didn't work.

She now hires citizens but she's paying $14-$17 an hour and about 40% of the people she hires don't come back after they pick up their first check. She said it's even worse for vineyards, that they need experienced labor and they just can't find them

[2sleepy]

Originally Posted by Finper

Why are you libs upset that he's talking about pulling ICE??? I thought you'd be happy. If nothing else I'd be a interesting sociology experiment.

I don't care one way or the other, and my cousin who owns an almond farm doesn't care, she's been audited by ICE a few times and she always passes with no problem. The ICE agents I've met are usually kind of slow and some are thuggish, it's not surprising though, would anyone who could get a job with CHP or a local PD with better pay and benefits go to work for ICE?