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This is California. The percentage is lower than in Red states. Fair point about tipping, I suppose, but those customers have a screw loose. Masks of course are unpleasant to wear, but employee willingness to wear masks is somewhat like a test for both cooperativeness and IQ. An employee who fails on either is less than desirable. Many employees want to mask and others sharing the air to do so.
That seems more about going on a tangent to falsely hint that I believe in Zero Covid in 2022 than addressing what I said. The virus is not endemic. It's still in pandemic form and possibly striking in major waves faster than ever, which I don't think anyone was predicting 1 year ago and is happening largely because of how inappropriately people are handling the situation.
In the Bay Area easily 20% of people despise masks, in places like Orange county it's probably closer to 50%. Go to Placer county it's probably more like 90%.
I work with top PhDs that literally despise masks. My company was originally going to force masks on people once they dropped them again but enough people including high level managers refused to wear them that they stopped enforcing the rule. And this is in the Bay Area.
You may want to brush up on your biology but covid 19 is the textbook definition of endemic. All that means is that it cannot be eliminated from the global population and will continue to spread. It mutates just like cold coronaviruses which are also endemic. It will probably get somewhat weaker but we now have vaccines and therapeutics to dull the impact of waves.
You forget that most mask studies in the general population show they either don't work in some populations like schoolchildren, or work slightly overall in adults. This was only meant as a temporary bandaid to prevent hospitals from overflowing 2 years ago to slightly slow the spread. Noone ever said that they'd prevent you from getting covid over a 10 year period or that they should be worn forever, because they simply just slightly reduce chances. And they have a whole litany of problems for young children's development as well.
I'd say easily a third of Americans minimum outright despise masks. People that don't like masks will probably tip bartenders and wait staff significantly less that wear masks (I know plenty of people that do this). And many people don't like wearing masks so they will seek work where they don't have to wear a mask. Employee retention will probably remain the main problem for most "covid forever" places.
Why would they care if a waiter/bartender wears a mask and tip less? That seems pretty messed up. If anything it's probably better as they aren't breathing all over your food and drinks. I just don't want to be forced to wear one, don't really care if employees do. I prefer to see employees without them but if they want to or have to wear them it doesn't affect me.
Why would they care if a waiter/bartender wears a mask and tip less? That seems pretty messed up. If anything it's probably better as they aren't breathing all over your food and drinks. I just don't want to be forced to wear one, don't really care if employees do. I prefer to see employees without them but if they want to or have to wear them it doesn't affect me.
I agree, but people aren't rational.
I love having food service workers not sneeze or blow spittle in my food and drink. However, I can totally see the majority of idiots out there paying more to slorp up other people's germs over some political BS.
Asians learned from the SARS epidemic and their food service workers have worn surgical masks since 2004. I predict we are not smart or clean enough to follow their example.
Asians learned from the SARS epidemic and their food service workers have worn surgical masks since 2004. I predict we are not smart or clean enough to follow their example.
I was in Shanghai and Sri Lanka in 2018 and literally 0 service workers wore masks. This I'd the most absurd thing I've ever read. This wasn't true in Japan either pre-2020
The only place that I saw a single mask was on the subway in China and I assume that person was sick.
Last edited by njbiodude; 03-25-2022 at 09:51 AM..
In the Bay Area easily 20% of people despise masks, in places like Orange county it's probably closer to 50%. Go to Placer county it's probably more like 90%.
Placer County basically doesn't exist. I've never even heard of it. Orange County and maybe San Bernadino County are the only very populated counties in California where anywhere near half of residents might strongly object to masks, due to crazies and ignoramuses, respectively.
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You may want to brush up on your biology but covid 19 is the textbook definition of endemic. All that means is that it cannot be eliminated from the global population and will continue to spread. It mutates just like cold coronaviruses which are also endemic. It will probably get somewhat weaker but we now have vaccines and therapeutics to dull the impact of waves.
I am not a scientist and shouldn't have to lecture a scientist on definitions, but 1) the actual definitions are fuzzy and 2) all indications are you're wrong. "Endemic" for the most part is steady and in the background, whereas "pandemic" has major waves much of the time and is quite disruptive. Besides, WHO, the USA, and other entities still classify this as a pandemic. "Endemic" misused is generally a dog whistle for, Let's pretend this isn't a major problem.
Quote:
You forget that most mask studies in the general population show they either don't work in some populations like schoolchildren, or work slightly overall in adults. This was only meant as a temporary bandaid to prevent hospitals from overflowing 2 years ago to slightly slow the spread. Noone ever said that they'd prevent you from getting covid over a 10 year period or that they should be worn forever, because they simply just slightly reduce chances. And they have a whole litany of problems for young children's development as well.
I wasn't talking about little kids, who aren't required to mask in many situations. High-grade, fitted masks probably would reduce infection frequency and severity for individuals over long periods and certainly haven't been used as a Band-Aid for decades in surgical areas, but the solution has to be measures like better indoor air cleaning, better vaccines, and better medical treatments. Vaccines and treatments are blunting waves, but for example there are no cheap, very effective antivirals (if not given faster than is often doable), apparently none of them can be used on minors in this country, there are no good treatments for Long-Covid, and there are supply issues. It will be quite a while before people can safely cavort mask-free in most indoor social settings.
Placer County basically doesn't exist. I've never even heard of it. Orange County and maybe San Bernadino County are the only very populated counties in California where anywhere near half of residents might strongly object to masks, due to crazies and ignoramuses, respectively...
You might want to brush up on your geography a little. The nearly half a million folks that live in Placer County might be offended! I heard of it in the 4th grace and have traveled through it quite a bit.
I am not a scientist and shouldn't have to lecture a scientist on definitions, but 1) the actual definitions are fuzzy and 2) all indications are you're wrong. "Endemic" for the most part is steady and in the background, whereas "pandemic" has major waves much of the time and is quite disruptive. Besides, WHO, the USA, and other entities still classify this as a pandemic. "Endemic" misused is generally a dog whistle for, Let's pretend this isn't a major problem.
I wasn't talking about little kids, who aren't required to mask in many situations. High-grade, fitted masks probably would reduce infection frequency and severity for individuals over long periods and certainly haven't been used as a Band-Aid for decades in surgical areas, but the solution has to be measures like better indoor air cleaning, better vaccines, and better medical treatments. Vaccines and treatments are blunting waves, but for example there are no cheap, very effective antivirals (if not given faster than is often doable), apparently none of them can be used on minors in this country, there are no good treatments for Long-Covid, and there are supply issues. It will be quite a while before people can safely cavort mask-free in most indoor social settings.
Covid has mostly moved into a baseline rate and while it may get milder over time with continued drug developments and vaccines that's not a sure thing. The thing you fail to realize is all non pharmaceutical measures like masks, "social distancing" and lockdowns were meant to "slow the curve" slightly to protect hospital systems. After 2 years the hospitals can and should be able to cope with inevitable successive waves.
At some point in 2020 masks instead became a mindless political culture war. They were never meant as a long term solution to preventing infection. Unless you've been fit tested and are wearing custom N95s don't expect them to do all that much (and even then they won't prevent infection all of the time. Everyone will get covid at some point, probably multiple times and develop some immunity in the process). Sadly children are often harassed the most. My kid who is 2 was regularly bothered in the Bay Area for not wearing a mask (and no he won't wear one, nor should he).
The new Pfizer antivirals are widely available at most pharmacies now and reasonably priced (cheap if you have insurance, free if on Medicaid) and they work. Same for monoclonal antibodies.
Agree on most of the ventilation and other things but again, it only slightly delays the inevitable. And major overhauls to airplane and school and other office ventilation systems have been done in the last 2 years.
Covid has mostly moved into a baseline rate and while it may get milder over time with continued drug developments and vaccines that's not a sure thing. The thing you fail to realize is all non pharmaceutical measures like masks, "social distancing" and lockdowns were meant to "slow the curve" slightly to protect hospital systems. After 2 years the hospitals can and should be able to cope with inevitable successive waves.
At some point in 2020 masks instead became a mindless political culture war. They were never meant as a long term solution to preventing infection. Unless you've been fit tested and are wearing custom N95s don't expect them to do all that much (and even then they won't prevent infection all of the time. Everyone will get covid at some point, probably multiple times and develop some immunity in the process). Sadly children are often harassed the most. My kid who is 2 was regularly bothered in the Bay Area for not wearing a mask (and no he won't wear one, nor should he).
The new Pfizer antivirals are widely available at most pharmacies now and reasonably priced (cheap if you have insurance, free if on Medicaid) and they work. Same for monoclonal antibodies.
Agree on most of the ventilation and other things but again, it only slightly delays the inevitable. And major overhauls to airplane and school and other office ventilation systems have been done in the last 2 years.
Only one version of monoclonal antibody treatment works against Omicron, and it's had supply issues. If you say so about Pfizer's cost to consumers, but it has serious drug interactions and presuming it's not dirt-cheap to produce like aspirin, the government is subsidizing that (meaning per taxes or cuts to goodies for the public). And probably only a small percentage is currently eligible to get it, and testing (not cheap for many people) is required first. For now, it's only an assumption, a somewhat reasonable one, that antivirals taken soon enough after infection make long-Covid quite unlikely. Long-term damage from infection should be most people's main concern.
There is no worthwhile benefit from infection (which people seem to use fatalistically or after the fact as an excuse to not take precautions). Immunity 'earned' from Omicron infection is very short-lived, to where after a few months, it's probably less than protection gained by N95 masking. The public is in for a bad surprise if/when BA.2 becomes very common. The UK is currently finding that out.
Only one version of monoclonal antibody treatment works against Omicron, and it's had supply issues. If you say so about Pfizer's cost to consumers, but it has serious drug interactions and presuming it's not dirt-cheap to produce like aspirin, the government is subsidizing that (meaning per taxes or cuts to goodies for the public). And probably only a small percentage is currently eligible to get it, and testing (not cheap for many people) is required first. For now, it's only an assumption, a somewhat reasonable one, that antivirals taken soon enough after infection make long-Covid quite unlikely. Long-term damage from infection should be most people's main concern.
There is no worthwhile benefit from infection (which people seem to use fatalistically or after the fact as an excuse to not take precautions). Immunity 'earned' from Omicron infection is very short-lived, to where after a few months, it's probably less than protection gained by N95 masking. The public is in for a bad surprise if/when BA.2 becomes very common. The UK is currently finding that out.
Omicron is about 40% deadlier than typical flu (though some non pandemic flu years it's even more deadly than Omicron.
Vaccines and milder strains mean less long-term problems in general. Most "long covid" resolves after a few months.
The highest I've seen for masks working in the general population is about 30% (ignoring healthcare workers with fit tested N95s). This does not mean you'll be able to prevent covid forever wearing a mask and covid will be around for years at minimum.
Not only that it's pretty clear hybrid immunity is likely superior for omicron over purely vaccines as you can see by looking at current growth curves of the new subvariant.
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