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I am considering a move to Fresno. I have a college degree from Berkeley as well as tech sales experience. I am capable of getting approved for a loan up to 525,000 and I hear that North Fresno is the place in California where that amount can take me the farthest. At first I dismissed Fresno but after thinking about it:
1 million metro
Big fish in small pond (20% of people have a college degree apparently)
Bigger house than anything I can buy at any other major metropolitan area (maybe rent out some rooms and have a cheap mortgage)
I think its worth considering. The things I look for are relatively simple: I like nightlife and want to meet women and go out drinking. I am a shallow guy, thats pretty much it.
I would rent first, give yourself a year to decide if you like Fresno and your job there, whatever job you find. Because if you get carried away with your credit-worthiness & buying power, then you'll be stuck with a house in Fresno, if you find out you hate it.
The only 25-yr-olds from Fresno I've known got the heck out of there by 25, transferring to Berkeley or U of WA in Seattle, to finish grad school. They never looked back.
Still, for a recent grad with marketable job skills, it could be a good place to spend a few years building career experience.
They say the air quality is very poor. Pollution from coastal cities, and from agricultural spraying and whatnot in the valley, floats eastward to Fresno. Have you ever visited there? You should scope it out before you doom yourself to it.
My father in law lives in North Fresno, so I've visited several times. Here was my take on this area:
Pros:
-Nicer neighborhood that felt safe compared to the rest of the city
-Woodward Park is very nice for going for long walks (when its not too hot nor smoggy)
-Cost of living seems very low (I come from the Bay Area)
-Only 90 minutes from Yosemite or Sequoia if you're into the outdoors
-Decent number of good restaurants in that area (I was surprised)
-Seemed to be a fair amount of attractive women in that area and felt like a "mini-OC". I'm generally not that shallow, but sounded like this was an important criteria for you
Cons:
-Didn't seem very exciting from a nightlife perspective. Saw a couple nicer wine bars, but didn't seem like much of a singles scene. As far as I'm aware (I could be wrong), the nightlife was either centered around FSU or in a bad part of Fresno
-Not a very educated community. Not sure if that is important to you but it definitely is to me, especially if I were looking for a girlfriend or friends in general
-Very ultra-religious/conservative. Not sure if this is a deal breaker, but it would be for me
-Very insular. People I know who live there either went to FSU (and met friends through there) or make friends through their church. Didn't seem like a great social scene in general
-Crime. While North Fresno (and parts of Clovis) seemed nice, you don't have to drive too far to get to some very tough neighborhoods
-Employment opportunities. If you're not into the agriculture space or have your own private practice (doctor, lawyer, accountant), you are going to struggle. Even the agriculture scene is very much based upon nepotism, where family/friends are hired or promoted (I grew up in another agriculture city and speak from experience).
-Air quality - It is terrible much of the year. The smog from much of Northern/Central Cal congregates in the valley from Fresno to Bakersfield. Also, there are very bad seasonal allergies from the agriculture/plowing of fields.
-Heat - Not sure if this is a pro/con for you, but a lot of people think it is way too hot in the summertime. I personally don't mind the heat, especially if there's AC, but just know that you'll likely be indoors most of the day (except when using the pool) and need to get your exercise early in the morning.
Personally, I wouldn't move to Fresno as a young professional. I think there's a reason why its so cheap and I don't think the small nicer area is enough to outweigh all of the other negatives. If I were looking for a cheaper metro and didn't mind the heat (which seems to not be an issue for you), I'd pick somewhere like Phoenix (where I used to live). Much more to offer for a young person, IMO.
Have you taken a look at what your potential loan could buy in the Sacramento area? Way more job potential there, closer to Bay Area/coast, way bigger clientele for any tech you might be selling there. Even if you'd have to get a smaller place then in Fresno, you'd be better off in a lot of ways. And they say, that the delta breezes cool the temps down at night, in the summers. You don't have that cooling factor in Fresno.
Have you taken a look at what your potential loan could buy in the Sacramento area? Way more job potential there, closer to Bay Area/coast, way bigger clientele for any tech you might be selling there. Even if you'd have to get a smaller place then in Fresno, you'd be better off in a lot of ways. And they say, that the delta breezes cool the temps down at night, in the summers. You don't have that cooling factor in Fresno.
Everything in Sacramento area comparable to Fresno area is AT LEAST $100K more. That house he speaks of in North Fresno for $500-600K is him positioning himself already at the top of the food chain in the Fresno metro area. Basically he would be looked at as "rich".
The major downfall in Fresno area is as you mentioned which are job potential. But if his job allows to work remote or he is in healthcare, law, or something universal. His money would go further in Fresno.
Sac is closer to the general bay area, but from Silicon Valley San Jose, its similar-- 2 hours. And there is less congestion areas because there aren't many other cities on the way to fresno as there is to sac.
Delta breeze is a bonus for sure as it cools noticeably at night where central CA doesnt really.
My father in law lives in North Fresno, so I've visited several times. Here was my take on this area:
Pros:
-Nicer neighborhood that felt safe compared to the rest of the city
-Woodward Park is very nice for going for long walks (when its not too hot nor smoggy)
-Cost of living seems very low (I come from the Bay Area)
-Only 90 minutes from Yosemite or Sequoia if you're into the outdoors
-Decent number of good restaurants in that area (I was surprised)
-Seemed to be a fair amount of attractive women in that area and felt like a "mini-OC". I'm generally not that shallow, but sounded like this was an important criteria for you
Cons:
-Didn't seem very exciting from a nightlife perspective. Saw a couple nicer wine bars, but didn't seem like much of a singles scene. As far as I'm aware (I could be wrong), the nightlife was either centered around FSU or in a bad part of Fresno
-Not a very educated community. Not sure if that is important to you but it definitely is to me, especially if I were looking for a girlfriend or friends in general
-Very ultra-religious/conservative. Not sure if this is a deal breaker, but it would be for me
-Very insular. People I know who live there either went to FSU (and met friends through there) or make friends through their church. Didn't seem like a great social scene in general
-Crime. While North Fresno (and parts of Clovis) seemed nice, you don't have to drive too far to get to some very tough neighborhoods
-Employment opportunities. If you're not into the agriculture space or have your own private practice (doctor, lawyer, accountant), you are going to struggle. Even the agriculture scene is very much based upon nepotism, where family/friends are hired or promoted (I grew up in another agriculture city and speak from experience).
-Air quality - It is terrible much of the year. The smog from much of Northern/Central Cal congregates in the valley from Fresno to Bakersfield. Also, there are very bad seasonal allergies from the agriculture/plowing of fields.
-Heat - Not sure if this is a pro/con for you, but a lot of people think it is way too hot in the summertime. I personally don't mind the heat, especially if there's AC, but just know that you'll likely be indoors most of the day (except when using the pool) and need to get your exercise early in the morning.
Personally, I wouldn't move to Fresno as a young professional. I think there's a reason why its so cheap and I don't think the small nicer area is enough to outweigh all of the other negatives. If I were looking for a cheaper metro and didn't mind the heat (which seems to not be an issue for you), I'd pick somewhere like Phoenix (where I used to live). Much more to offer for a young person, IMO.
North Fresno, especially NE Fresno is far from crime as all the neighboring areas are all considered nice areas. With the exception of Pinedale area. most of the crime is in SW Fresno and SE Fresno. Both very far from NE Fresno. And violent crime in general in Fresno is not bad if you look at the big picture. SF, Sac, Oakland, and other big cities have more violent crime per 100K population. I always have to point that out because crime is also the go to statistic people seem to think makes Fresno bad: https://www.gddlaw.com/2016/05/12/ci...nia-dangerous/
Moderator cut: link removed, competitor site https://abc30.com/homicides-down-by-...ounty/4978297/
For comparison:
Fresno COUNTY (fresno, clovis, etc): 32
City of Oakland alone: 66
Alameda COUNTY (includes oakland): 85
Contra Costa COUNTY: 38
San Francisco: 42
bay area source: https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/...omicides-2018/
Crime should no longer be the reason people hate or talk down on fresno. It has been safer than other desireable cities for several years. Maybe in the early 90s and 00s then sure Fresno could accept that wrap. But not as of late.
Air Quality, Summer heat (2-3 months depending how sensitive one is to heat), lack high paying jobs, isolated big city, are the legitimate reasons
North Fresno, especially NE Fresno is far from crime as all the neighboring areas are all considered nice areas.
I will say that we were visiting my father in law one time and decided to stay in Clovis. I had heard that Clovis was a nicer, upscale area. I was surprised that there were some sketchy parts of Clovis.
I agree that parts of Fresno are much better than Oakland or other bad parts of the Bay Area. My point is that you're really not that far away from a sketchy area. Sure, you are probably safe to stay in the nicer areas, but I always felt that there were a lot of areas where you wouldn't want to venture out at night, let alone daytime.
I will say that we were visiting my father in law one time and decided to stay in Clovis. I had heard that Clovis was a nicer, upscale area. I was surprised that there were some sketchy parts of Clovis.
I agree that parts of Fresno are much better than Oakland or other bad parts of the Bay Area. My point is that you're really not that far away from a sketchy area. Sure, you are probably safe to stay in the nicer areas, but I always felt that there were a lot of areas where you wouldn't want to venture out at night, let alone daytime.
Generally people associate all of clovis as nicer. It's all the good of the fresno area without the bad. But just like Fresno, the nothern most part of clovis is the nicer and "upscale" version if you want to call it that. I would say Fresno has more upscale and nicer neighborhoods in Copper River Ranch (clovis schools but in the city of fresno) or old fig and van ness extension which is also in Fresno and not Clovis Clovis has more newer tract homes and more in abundance with higher cost and less old areas so in general just seems nicer overall. It's easy to come to that conclusion when Clovis' 120K population and housing is generally on a higher social economic level. While Fresno with it's 550K population and wider range of social and economic classes have more variety. As for sketchy parts of clovis. I wouldn't necessarily call it sketchy, but when most of clovis is nice with new cookie cutter homes, when you get to the old part of town, A LOT of people sometimes associate old as sketchy. That would be Tarpey Village area of clovis. Southern borders of clovis neighboring SE Fresno in the Loma Vista area is basically more affordable newer living for those who cant afford the northern part of Clovis. It blends into SE Fresno's nicer part but SE Fresno is closer to the truly sketchy parts of Fresno.
I saw you recommended OP to Phoenix AZ. Phoenix Az population alone is 1.7 million people. Fresno, CA although the 5th biggest city in CA is only only 550,000. Even adding Clovis population doesnt even hit 700K. So of course Phoenix would have more opportunities and more things to do etc. The metropolitan area of Fresno is barely 1 million and the cities that contribute to that 1 million I'm sad to say is WEAK except for fresno and clovis Phoenix metro area is 5 million.
If OP's option was only in CA, Fresno, Ca IS one of the only big affordable cities left. Other than Sacramento and Bakersfield area. (again big cities in CA). Sacramento is superior for sure but comes at $100-150K more for similar type of home/area. Bakersfield on the other hand is cheaper than Fresno, but has less to offer and I would say is inferior in everyway compared to Fresno other than proximity to LA.
Sac is closer to the general bay area, but from Silicon Valley San Jose, its similar-- 2 hours. And there is less congestion areas because there aren't many other cities on the way to fresno as there is to sac.
Delta breeze is a bonus for sure as it cools noticeably at night where central CA doesnt really.
Sacramento is 30 miles closer to San Jose/Silicon Valley than Fresno is.
Also, the trip from Fresno to San Jose is no fun. Highway 152 is not a fun ride (very dangerous), and Highway 101 from Gilroy to San Jose is highly congested.
Sacramento to San Jose/Silicon Valley has two routes: Via I-5 or via Frwy 680.
Also, Sacramento is connected to San Jose/Silicon Valley with a very nice train: The Capitol Corridor/regular train service 7-10 trips a day to 3 different stops in Santa Clara/San Jose (pre-covid 19).
Same train connects Sacramento/Davis with all the major cities of the Bay Area up to 12 trains per day(pre-covid 19) with stops at UC Davis, UC Berkeley, Santa Clara University.
Sacramento is a lot Closer to the general Bay Area than Fresno is.
Sacramento to SF: 87 miles/under 2 hours.
Fresno to SF: 186 miles/3 hours, 30 minutes.
Sacramento to Berkeley: 75 miles/1.5 hours
Fresno to Berkeley: 180 miles/3 hours, 15 minutes
Sacramento has UC Davis, and Sacramento is practically as close to UC Berkeley as Fresno is to UC Merced, and Sacramento is closer to UC Merced than Fresno is to UC Berkeley. Sacramento is a lot closer to UC San Francisco than Fresno is. Sacramento is actually closer to UC Santa Cruz than Fresno is.
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