Hyperion: Tallest Redwood: Heard hide or hair? Scuttlebutt?

[MarkGraham]

Originally Posted by phinneas j. whoopee

https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwic...-in-california

Why not try climbing to the top of it?

It cannot be denied National Geographic sent cameras and crews up Hyperion, Stratosphere Giant, and Illuvatar trees (and trees nearby for perspective photos). For multiple purposes, including selling magazines and videos.

[Montclairion]

Originally Posted by MarkGraham

LIDAR Redwoods - MapSource

Mark, though I don't necessarily support your conclusion, I have a question. Have LIDAR studies been done for all the Great Redwood parks up North? And how accurate is the data? Numerous times on this thread people have made claims about trees being substantially taller than Hyperion. Would the LIDAR results confirm or deny these claims?

Colors Through Two Great Trees, Prarie Creek Redwoods State Park

[MarkGraham]

Originally Posted by Montclairion

Mark, though I don't necessarily support your conclusion, I have a question. Have LIDAR studies been done for all the Great Redwood parks up North? And how accurate is the data? Numerous times on this thread people have made claims about trees being substantially taller than Hyperion. Would the LIDAR results confirm or deny these claims?

Colors Through Two Great Trees, Prarie Creek Redwoods State Park

Hello Charles

The largest LiDAR errors I have seen are about six feet. The height is overestimated if the tree is on a very steep slope and the top leans over the slope a little. Then the height is underestimated if the tip is missed or there is a big log laying against the base, with the largest misses happening for spiked top trees.

LiDAR coverage areas can be reviewed on the United States Interagency Elevation Inventory page. Almost all the areas with tallest trees have been measured by LiDAR. There are a couple LiDAR coverage gaps, one on the north side of Headwaters, then another in Six Rivers National Forest just north of the Experimental Forest. But based on nearby trees the tallest trees in the coverage gap areas would be about 350 feet.

All the LiDAR indicated heights over 106 meters were ground truthed.

So I would be surprised if there is currently a tree taller than Hyperion.

[jqmhelios]

Hi,
I think there is at least one tree taller, but I won't mention its name here. I'll just refer to it as E22H.
LiDAR did not measure all the areas of RNP, as far as I can say. It was determined it missed out huge chunks of the forest. And I seriously doubt the LiDAR data is public, Wohl-troll. And why do you need it? I for example love using clues I can find to propose where trees are located myself. Like I am proposing E22H is located in (name redacted) and that (name redacted) is in (name redacted).
Or, if LiDAR didn't miss anything, it measured heights incorrectly. Like Mark said, errors can happen, and if E22H is where I think it is, it is on a TREMENDOUSLY steep slope. Otherwise there is no way LiDAR would have missed that.
When will you provide evidence for your claims, awesometroll and Wohl-troll?

[MarkGraham]

Originally Posted by jqmhelios

Hi,
I think there is at least one tree taller, but I won't mention its name here. I'll just refer to it as E22H.
LiDAR did not measure all the areas of RNP, as far as I can say. It was determined it missed out huge chunks of the forest. And I seriously doubt the LiDAR data is public, Wohl-troll. And why do you need it? I for example love using clues I can find to propose where trees are located myself. Like I am proposing E22H is located in (name redacted) and that (name redacted) is in (name redacted).
Or, if LiDAR didn't miss anything, it measured heights incorrectly. Like Mark said, errors can happen, and if E22H is where I think it is, it is on a TREMENDOUSLY steep slope. Otherwise there is no way LiDAR would have missed that.
When will you provide evidence for your claims, awesometroll and Wohl-troll?

Well, I guess it is possible.

Unlike further south, as far as I know the only LiDAR dataset covering all the prime areas (ground elevation below 1200 or so feet) in the Redwood Creek basin is from a 2007 flyover. And it is a private dataset. You can view the coverage area of this dataset on the United States Interagency Elevation Inventory page but the point cloud data itself is not available.

To do the tall trees search the 2007 dataset was evaluated a dozen years ago using software and processing power available at that time. LiDAR software has greatly advanced in the last dozen years, and I am sure people involved with redwoods research are very skilled with current software. Reprocessing the 2007 point clouds with current software may have revealed something that wasn't noted in 2008. The new software paired with greatly improved processing power leads to the dynamic creation of ground levels (using average ground level of neighboring points) and tip identification (using maximum points from first returns). This leads to rapid visualizations of relatively large areas (say one square kilometer), where the highest points (tip vs ground) can be further investigated.

Then obviously some trees have increased height since 2008. I can see a tall redwood, right on the bank above a creek, with a big log pile adjacent to it in the creek, artificially inflating ground level. Then with a single leader that has grown maybe eight feet since 2008. That's how you could get a 390 foot redwood that was missed until recently. It's possible.

[jqmhelios]

Nothing's 100%, of course, this is just speculation. I may have seen a photo or two, or may not have...
Its good the data list is kept private. FR is now stuck in the dirt, as blind as a bat. LEt's hope this leaking business will stop once and for all. About how the height could have been underestimated, Mark, that kind of thing is very likely.
As I write the conclusion to my FR timeline, I thought it would be good to post an update. The images below are taken by Mario Vaden, all credit to him. Showing the effects of FR and Grove of Titans on the redwoods. Two pics of Hyperion are also posted, and two pics of Sir Isaac Newton. No wonder Mr. Vaden calls FR an electronic pesticide.
FR has wrought terrifying damage to the forests. The pictures below should demonstrate this.
But that is not the only effect of FR. Friendships have been destroyed, this horrible finger-pointing has been going on since 2014, people like Montague despicably framing others and clearing others without any evidence to support their claims at all. A lot of people have had serious blows to their self-esteem from all this, as I can see.
But that is not all, as well.
It has also led to the flow of data about new discoveries being shut off completely.
Dr. Steve Sillett has stopped releasing data about heights in public. This renders some tree lists obsolete, and only very few people know what order of ehights it really is now. Some grew, some lost height, new redwoods were discovered. At least one tree has been found to surpass Hyperion’s 386ft height. It is safe to share that the mystery titan does not rise above 400ft into the skies. Enormous trees were also found, of which the largest revelaed is ‘Big Kahuna’, as Mario Vaden calls it. Mario made this tree public and provided data for it, and it resulted in FR leaking the location as described above. There are several colossal trees in the redwoods, one of which possibly exceeds General Sherman’s volume. Nothing will be said about this monster at all. Some redwoods are thought to be older than bristlecone pines. There is one tree with a diameter far exceeding anything published before.
Before FR went live, Mario was happy sharing info and data- his pages on Hyperion were informative and beautiful, but when FR went live, he understood that it was better to keep trees secret in order to protect them. Not even providing a height list right now. Only a handful of people know where trees like E22H are located. By doing leaks and smashing forests to pieces, they caused the flow of info to the interested forest-caring public to be shut off completely. Most people I talk to have not even heard of these trees! Everything is being kept under immensely tight wraps, and FR has deprived people of this opportunity to see coast redwoods, or at least an accurate height table.
FR has basically only punished themselves by doing these leaks. Some of the trees I know of are a million times more amazing than anything published on that rogue site. And has punished a lot of people with them. Now the trees are safe for sure, but in going live, you deprived a lot of people of the opportunity to be in the know about spectacular trees.
But that is not it! You also are leading people into dangerous places. The hike to Hyperion is extremely dangerous, I outlined that before. The hike to Orion is even worse. You are moronic and foolish to be conducting such leaks, only for those leaks to punish the people you were hoping to lure into the forest and blast yourselves off the face of the Earth. So when I see people promoting FR, most likely being FR supporters payed to do this and misinform, though I have no evidence for this, I can't help but wonder- 'do you actually believe that?' What you are saying?
FR has done nothing but damage. And people like Mario, Steve, Mark and me will never trust most people with new discoveries. All thanks to you, FR. This is to what your leaks have led.
You have caused nothing but damage. And even when FR goes down, I doubt Mario will ever trust anyone with remarkable trees anymore.
So good luck with your leaks. And do bear in mind the 'Redwood Illuminati' as you called them, awesometroll, have led to me having lovely stats and photographs. I know way more than you FR members.
This is what you have led to.

[jqmhelios]

This is the damage FR caused to Hyperion SIX WEEKS after FR leaked Hyperion on the internet