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Old 06-08-2016, 02:50 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,728,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
The problem with China is the perceived outsourcing of U.S. jobs to China. And that's not an America-only grievance. Tons of countries perceive China as benefitting economically on the backs of domestic workers losing their jobs.
So it is China's fault that American big corporation decided to outsource for cheaper labour and high profits? haha. that would be brilliant. (I am not saying you believe that. I think you are smarter than that).


Loss of manufacturing jobs is an inevitable result of so called "globalization". And who started globalization? China and other cheap labour countries? They don't have the power even if they want to. And once it takes its course, there is no way back. Many Americans don't realize that even if China closes its door today and cease to export anything, those manufacturing jobs are not going back to America - they will end up in Vietnam, Bangladesh, India, Bulgaria, wherever it is cheaper to produce, because big companies don't love China, they love cheaper labour. Mr Trump knows it too. He is smart but he knows most voters are not.


China definitely benefited tremendously from that, enabling millions of poor peasants to become urban residents and make a decent living, but the west benefit a lot too - cheaper consumer products from plastic plates to I-phones. Unintelligent people are always good at complaining and blaming others, without understanding the whole story. Do we know why American lifestyle is so affordable, and why inflation has always been low? Imagine everything in America is produced by GM's union workers.


This is getting a bit OT. I apologize.
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Old 06-08-2016, 02:56 PM
 
10,839 posts, read 14,728,787 times
Reputation: 7874
Quote:
Originally Posted by saturno_v View Post
Here we agree...guns are not the main problem......for example, you want to resolve in one shot (no pun intended ) a very large percentage of gun violence in America?? Liberalize drug...all of it....the day a dose of cocaine can be bought at Walmart (and for a fraction of current prices), gang violence will dissolve like snow in an Arizona summer day....
I have no problem with that. I don't think the government should be in the business of banning the consumption of anything. People should be responsible for their own behavior, but the only concern is children. However, it is not like interested teenagers can't get drugs nowadays. They just pay higher prices.


Weed, coke, prostitution, all these should be legal, as long as the consequence is clearly stated (like with cigarettes). Well intended intervention only results in higher violence. In Ontario, the government goes to great length to monopolize sale of booze, which is laughable.
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:20 PM
 
3,950 posts, read 3,303,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I have no problem with that. I don't think the government should be in the business of banning the consumption of anything. People should be responsible for their own behavior, but the only concern is children. However, it is not like interested teenagers can't get drugs nowadays. They just pay higher prices.


Weed, coke, prostitution, all these should be legal, as long as the consequence is clearly stated (like with cigarettes). Well intended intervention only results in higher violence. In Ontario, the government goes to great length to monopolize sale of booze, which is laughable.

Yes, obviously I do not advocate selling drugs to under age individuals...but you get my point....
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Old 06-08-2016, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
6,327 posts, read 9,156,239 times
Reputation: 4053
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
3) Canadian nationalists: These come mostly from Ontario and parts of Quebec, but there's also a ton in Atlantic Canada. They spend their entire time in the US complaining about how perfect Canada is and how they are SHOCKED that America would allow [insert issue: guns, for-profit healthcare, trans fats). These people generally have a visceral hatred of Americans. They don't only dislike the American government but they dislike the American PEOPLE. They have no problems generalizing 325,000,000 people. They make condescending remarks about how fat/arrogant/dumb/lazy/racist/violent Americans are and then proceed to state "but in Canada, we're humble and tolerant." They have an inferiority complex deeply-rooted in both jealously and a belief that they've been ignored by Americans. They take every opportunity to comment on how things are SO MUCH BETTER in Canada. They tend to be much younger and they have to, have to state how they're Canadian in every sentence. I have a good Israeli friend who studied at the University of Toronto and he said these types are all around campuses. They are the kind who use American websites, watch American movies, read books by American authors yet instinctively trash on the US at every change. And they HATE it when you point out how Canada is very similar. They'll tend proceed to list every marginal Canadian invention they can find: "Well we gifted the world Degrassi and Drake and Justin Bieber and Nanaimo Bars and Hockey. WE invited Basketball and Poutine." They love to circle-jerk in threads looking for self-affirmation: "Are there any Dutch people around in this thread who are willing to thank me for what Canadians did 80 years ago?" They think they are a superpower in the making and love to cheer about climate change and the destruction of habitats because then Canada "can have 500 million people" They are very out-of-touch with reality and are largely operate on the belief that they know the USA better than Americans.

Most people on this thread are Canadian nationalists. In fact, most Canadians on the internet I've met have been Canadian nationalists. It's a generational thing. I just hope they mature out of this, "we're so perfect" stage. Most Canadians I've met have been 'Political Dissenters': they like our culture but not our politics.

I recommend this article on anti-Americanism in Canada: Everybody hates Americans: My life abroad as the maligned Other - Salon.com
I forgot to add a comment, a lot of the people I've noticed in life in this category have a similar disdain for most of Canada west of London besides Vancouver. Part of it is certainly politics IMO as Western Canada is pretty conservative compared to what you see in the cities of Ontario and Quebec.
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Vancouver
18,504 posts, read 15,560,052 times
Reputation: 11937
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
I interact with tons of foreign nationals on a daily basis. From my experience there are three types of Canadians:

1) Kind and Welcoming: These, from my experience, mostly come from Western Canada. They have more of a regional connection. Many think of Oregon as more familiar than Ontario. They are very kind and generally visit the US without a ruckus. They respect the rules. They don't see themselves as better or worse. They keep to themselves or to other Canadians and generally don't try to make self-referential statements about their politics/religion, etc. They tend to be older than average. They don't know America too well but they don't claim to.

2) Political Dissenters: These Canadians like the U.S. and come to the U.S. frequently. They have a very, very good understanding of American culture and politics. They know the context by which America operates. They know that we can't tackle gun issues because of the 2nd Amendment. They know about gerrymandering and how the Senate works. They know about regional differences. Between the South and the Midwest, the West and the Northeast, the Southwest and the Pacific Northwest. They like Americans and understand that issues are much more complex than portrayed by the CBC. They are the ones who say, "I love Americans, but I don't love your politics." And that's fine. These tend to be more middle-aged.

3) Canadian nationalists: These come mostly from Ontario and parts of Quebec, but there's also a ton in Atlantic Canada. They spend their entire time in the US complaining about how perfect Canada is and how they are SHOCKED that America would allow [insert issue: guns, for-profit healthcare, trans fats). These people generally have a visceral hatred of Americans. They don't only dislike the American government but they dislike the American PEOPLE. They have no problems generalizing 325,000,000 people. They make condescending remarks about how fat/arrogant/dumb/lazy/racist/violent Americans are and then proceed to state "but in Canada, we're humble and tolerant." They have an inferiority complex deeply-rooted in both jealously and a belief that they've been ignored by Americans. They take every opportunity to comment on how things are SO MUCH BETTER in Canada. They tend to be much younger and they have to, have to state how they're Canadian in every sentence. I have a good Israeli friend who studied at the University of Toronto and he said these types are all around campuses. They are the kind who use American websites, watch American movies, read books by American authors yet instinctively trash on the US at every change. And they HATE it when you point out how Canada is very similar. They'll tend proceed to list every marginal Canadian invention they can find: "Well we gifted the world Degrassi and Drake and Justin Bieber and Nanaimo Bars and Hockey. WE invited Basketball and Poutine." They love to circle-jerk in threads looking for self-affirmation: "Are there any Dutch people around in this thread who are willing to thank me for what Canadians did 80 years ago?" They think they are a superpower in the making and love to cheer about climate change and the destruction of habitats because then Canada "can have 500 million people" They are very out-of-touch with reality and are largely operate on the belief that they know the USA better than Americans.

Most people on this thread are Canadian nationalists. In fact, most Canadians on the internet I've met have been Canadian nationalists. It's a generational thing. I just hope they mature out of this, "we're so perfect" stage. Most Canadians I've met have been 'Political Dissenters': they like our culture but not our politics.

I recommend this article on anti-Americanism in Canada: Everybody hates Americans: My life abroad as the maligned Other - Salon.com
I see myself as 1 and 2. Some of the points in 3 I've seen on threads and in person, but my experience is that it's usually a reaction in response to something said about Canada or Canadians. I'm not saying these people don't exist, but the reasons people behave that way varies.

For instance. Guns. I've had many gun conversations on CD and because I use my personal experience of living in a country with stricter gun control laws, doesn't make me a nationalist for stating my experience in Canada.

If I were to classify Americans, they'd be pretty close to your classifications of us. Although regionally different.

As for which people know what about what. Canada in general is stereotyped around the world. People know of us of course, but the details are lacking. I find people in the UK know more about Australia than Canada.

Ignorance is ignorance and it exists everywhere. What stands out to me is the level of ignorance of Canada within the anglo world, is higher in the US. Someone in the UK may not be able to name our provinces perhaps, but they know we have cars and electricity. Whether it's because I meet more Americans and have travelled there more, who knows, but it is only in the US that I've met people who truly thought Canada didn't have airports for example.

The link you provided is one person experience. She seems a little sensitive to me. It is also ironic that an American whose own country is known for bragging is complaining about bragging. Well, maybe I can't blame her it can be annoying.

I had to laugh though when she said

"America is not just the country that brought you McDonald’s. We brought you bourbon and jambalaya and popcorn and ice cream cones and clam chowder and brownies and pumpkin pie. "

If someone is going to brag, at least get it right. She got some of those wrong.


EDIT: reading the comments on the article you linked. I think this one sums it up.

"The author is suffering from tiny-backwater-town bigotry, not Canadian bigotry. "

Last edited by Natnasci; 06-08-2016 at 05:36 PM..
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Old 06-08-2016, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Green Country
2,868 posts, read 2,821,788 times
Reputation: 4798
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
So it is China's fault that American big corporation decided to outsource for cheaper labour and high profits? haha. that would be brilliant. (I am not saying you believe that. I think you are smarter than that).


Loss of manufacturing jobs is an inevitable result of so called "globalization". And who started globalization? China and other cheap labour countries? They don't have the power even if they want to. And once it takes its course, there is no way back. Many Americans don't realize that even if China closes its door today and cease to export anything, those manufacturing jobs are not going back to America - they will end up in Vietnam, Bangladesh, India, Bulgaria, wherever it is cheaper to produce, because big companies don't love China, they love cheaper labour. Mr Trump knows it too. He is smart but he knows most voters are not.


China definitely benefited tremendously from that, enabling millions of poor peasants to become urban residents and make a decent living, but the west benefit a lot too - cheaper consumer products from plastic plates to I-phones. Unintelligent people are always good at complaining and blaming others, without understanding the whole story. Do we know why American lifestyle is so affordable, and why inflation has always been low? Imagine everything in America is produced by GM's union workers.


This is getting a bit OT. I apologize.
I don't believe that. I would even go so far as to say that China should join the TPP. I'm far from a protectionist.
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Old 06-09-2016, 12:12 AM
 
625 posts, read 1,390,145 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitopiaaa View Post
You love to ask questions so here are two:

1) What level super-majority do you need in both the Senate and the House of Representatives to amend the Constitution?

2) How many State Legislatures are needed to open a Constitutional Convention?

I think if you knew these, you'd see that it's harder than saying: "Why don't Americans just ban guns! It can't be that hard!!!11!" Which, unfortunately, is the view that many non-Americans have about American politics. We don't have a Parliamentary System for good and bad (I prefer the U.S. system, some don't). But America's problems are grounded in history and political design. There are reasons for grid-lock. We haven't banned guns because we love violence. We haven't banned guns because you need a super-super majority to amend the 2nd Amendment and there's always going to be a very vocal minority that can block this in either the House of the Senate.
There is no reason to amend the Constitution to adopt reasonable gun control.

Ban guns? That would be hard not just for constituional reasons. First off, lots of people hunt. Canada doesn't ban guns. I can't speak for other countries.

But reasonable gun control is within the realm of the Constitution. I'm not up on the latest Supreme Court decisions but as I understand it a) the second amendment refers to the maintenance of motors, and b) it doesn't prevent regulations whether they are limits on the types of guns that can be sold, how they are registered, how one qualifies to own one, etc.

But I agree we do have to appreciate the power institutions have.
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Old 06-09-2016, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,843,905 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The difference is probably not that statistically significant, although in my view Canada does have a proportionately larger ''global knowledge geek" population than the U.S. does.


But it's still a minority of people.


And at least part of the motivation of these global keeners is to show that their "foreign" knowledge as Canadians is not limited to "knowledge of the United States".
Agree.
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,843,905 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
These are really not very difficult question if one cares anything about the outside world.


If one reads the newspaper at all, the name Manual Valls pops up very frequently, especially in the past couple of months due to the labour law revision. The thing is, Americans pay not attention to it whatsoever, because that's "international news".


Do Americans know how many regions France has, and how many provinces Canada has? Probably les than 5%. On the other hand, most French and Canadians know how many states America has. If you argue that's because America is far bigger and more important, fine, then how many provinces does China have? 99% Americans probably can't tell the relative location of Beijing and Shanghai on the map. And I assure you, most Chinese with some education know roughly NYC and Los Angeles are located.


And come on, there is an excuse for not even knowing the capital of Australia? Any 12 year olds should.


The Fort McMurray fire caught much of the media's attention. Now ask any America roughly where Alberta is located on the map, and they probably will give you a blank face "what the hell is Alberta"?


This is why Americans are still stuck with the imperial system, thinking anything different is "odd", without knowing Myanmar and Liberia (if they know about these two countries) are the only two other countries that share the same eccentricity. America, out of explicit arrogance, chooses to be ignorant about anything "international", because who cares, they are aliens.
*sigh*

Not this ridiculousness again. Why is this so difficult to figure out?

YES, the reason that Americans know far less about Canada is only because Americans don't watch Canadian TV or Canadian movies to the degree that Canadians are glued to American TV and movies. It's all about American cultural dominance that other people around the world have WILLINGLY supported. Nobody forces you to buy American. YOU CHOOSE to (that's a general "you.") So, again, this notion that Americans are a bunch of boorish, ignorant plebeians, while Canadians prefer more quiet, worldly, intellectual pursuits is absurd. And SO tiresome.

Outside of Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver, WHERE in Canada have you been? Where else in Canada have you lived? What do you know about, say, Gimli, Manitoba or Digby, Nova Scotia? If your knowledge of Canada outside of its major cities is what I suspect it is, then it appears that you, like many Canadians, expect something of Americans that you don't expect of yourself.

Get out and discover the country you claim to be so proud to be a part of, and STOP, once and for all, caring about what is it Americans know, or don't know, about Canada!
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Old 06-09-2016, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN -
9,588 posts, read 5,843,905 times
Reputation: 11116
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
These are really not very difficult question if one cares anything about the outside world.


If one reads the newspaper at all, the name Manual Valls pops up very frequently, especially in the past couple of months due to the labour law revision. The thing is, Americans pay not attention to it whatsoever, because that's "international news".


Do Americans know how many regions France has, and how many provinces Canada has? Probably les than 5%. On the other hand, most French and Canadians know how many states America has. If you argue that's because America is far bigger and more important, fine, then how many provinces does China have? 99% Americans probably can't tell the relative location of Beijing and Shanghai on the map. And I assure you, most Chinese with some education know roughly NYC and Los Angeles are located.


And come on, there is an excuse for not even knowing the capital of Australia? Any 12 year olds should.


The Fort McMurray fire caught much of the media's attention. Now ask any America roughly where Alberta is located on the map, and they probably will give you a blank face "what the hell is Alberta"?


This is why Americans are still stuck with the imperial system, thinking anything different is "odd", without knowing Myanmar and Liberia (if they know about these two countries) are the only two other countries that share the same eccentricity. America, out of explicit arrogance, chooses to be ignorant about anything "international", because who cares, they are aliens.
*SNORT*

And Canadians know about Myanmar and Liberia? Are you serious? No, the average Canadian is FAR too busy watching CSI, Real Housewives, The Bachelor, etc, just like the average American is. You might be able to convince yourself otherwise, but don't think for a second you can convince anyone else.

You simply don't want to admit to yourself that you emigrated to a country that is almost entirely dependent on the popular culture of another country/countries. Perhaps you should have done some research, in more ways than one, before making the big move across the globe. Or, at the very least, maybe you should have settled in Quebec. There, you would have found what you're looking for, AND, more important, you would have learned the second official language of your adopted country. How much French DO you speak, btw?
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