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In our situation, we moved to a different country 27 years ago. At that time, my inlaws were in great health ; visited us several times and we visited them also many times. Also, my dh is such a great son that we decided to pay the utility bills for my inlaws out of our own pockets. Our logic was that even though we cannot be there in person for them, at least we know they will have heat, hot water, electric and telephone in their own home. My dh has a sister who does nothing for her parents even though she is a doctor and earning great money. We are regular working people, put ourselves thru college, raising two children etc etc.
Fast forward to 14 years ago when my fil died suddenly. At that stage, my mil was doing ok ; could get to town on the bus daily and was a little social. Things were still ok. Then around 4 years ago she started to slip, forgetting things, repeating things over and over. The phone calls started coming from neighbours saying she was getting off at the wrong bus stop, would forget asking neighbors to do things. We were home in Jan and saw a huge decline. Still, the GP said that as she declined help, there was nothing he could do. May, my dh went home and set up meals on wheels, set up a daily caregiver to come in for an hour every day at our cost. By September, She had fallen and was in hospital refusing to have any help and the hospital wouldnt let her home alone. So again, we set up caregiving that was 5-6 hours daily, again at our cost until she refused to open the door to them and we couldnt financially do it anymore. My dh and I made four trips to Ireland between Sept and Dec. So now she has governement caregiving for 90mins a day and thats it.
We would love if she would go into a home for her own safety. Unfortunately in Ireland, most homes will not take her as she is refusing to go, the doctors maintain she is ok in her own home as the home is tidy and she can tell them what they want to hear. So now we wait for the next fall, hopefully she wont be hurt and we wait for the moment that she has no memory. We were in Ireland last week and she has no memory this week of us being there ; even the day after we came back, she had no memory of us being there.
So for the person who says that children are waiting to push their parents into homes ; please accept the idea that most children do not want to do this. My sil would do it in a heartbeat, my dh is so against it as he wants to follow his mums descisions. However, he knows that she is not capable of making descisions and we live with the daily fear of her falling. Her attorney maintains she is gone too far to sign a POA. So who do we believe ; the doctors or the attorney or just our own gut feeling?
Briolat21, your post confuses me. There is no magic age beyond which a mentally healthy adult does not have the right to make their own decisions, as long as their decisions don't break the law. If their rights are being trampled on, they need to see a lawyer.
It's nothing to do with respecting someone's "wishes", it's respecting their legal right to make their own decisions. That applies whether a person is 30 or 90.
Too often, we assume that because a person is still alert, they do not have a dementia problem. This is not so. A person may seem to be fully aware and logical, but for periods of time, it may be only a minute or two or weeks, the mind does not function as it should.
The most important issue is the one of food. Can he/she manage to eat properly? Is someone providing food? Or does it really matter that they might starve? Solve that problem first.
I understand OP (I think). My 87 year old father lives alone in a 2 story home. He has severe sleep apnea, sleep walks and has sudden "spells" that cause him to fall. He is forgetful and is also showing signs of confusion. Because of his falls, he has had multiple lacerations to his head and upper extremities. He has also broken his ribs.
He understands that a fall down the steps could result in a broken hip or even death. He does not want any of his children moving in with him nor does he want a stranger caring for him. He most assuredly does not want to move into a facility.
IMO (and that of my colleague, an Adult Guardianship attorney) he is legally competent. He has the right to make decisions that may place his health (or life) at risk. If and when he becomes demented, then we'll address the issue.
He's still driving. There were a few months he didn't drive because his sleep specialist told him she would notify MVA if he attempted to drive before she gave him the o.k. She gave him the o.k. during his follow up examination and to be honest, I think he drives better than I do.
All families are different, all people are different, and all aging situations are both different and ever-changing. I don't think there are any magic answers to look for, and I don't think it helps to put all sorts of expectations on yourself. I think the best one can hope for is a perhaps long series of short-term arrangements that for the moment at least meet most of the basic needs of everyone involved. From my experience, that means keeping everyone involved as an active part of the loop for as long as possible. And it means remembering to attend to the needs of a caregiver as much as those of the one needing care. Elder care is a physically demanding and emotionally challenging sort of thing. It helps if there can be a team that's taking it on. It can be awfully hard if you are trying to do it all by yourself.
Does anyone know what percentage of the elderly have dementia so severe they cannot live in their home? I'm not talking about being somewhat forgetful, or not remembering things at times and repeating questions.
What is the cutoff point?
What do you do when an elderly person decides to starve themselves to death when they are taken out of their home against their wishes?
Is it better for them to die in a nursing home surrounded by caregivers, or at home with less care?
Does anyone know what percentage of the elderly have dementia so severe they cannot live in their home? I'm not talking about being somewhat forgetful, or not remembering things at times and repeating questions.
What is the cutoff point?
I think that in many cases, the cut-off point becomes very obvious. For example, I know of one lady who was somewhat forgetful and sometimes even talked as if her husband was still alive. One day she climbed out of the window of her second storey bedroom onto the roof to play. At that moment she thought she was a child again.
I just wanted to add to my post regarding the lady who climbed out onto her roof...
It's quite possible the neighbors, acquaintances and even friends never heard about the roof incident. All they knew was that the lady had been somewhat forgetful and her daughter had forced her to give up her home.
Be careful about judging when you might not know the whole story!
And that's my point, although an extreme example....the lady had been somewhat forgetful and then suddenly has a major setback in mentation and is on the roof. Dear God, how scary for her family that must have been! But there were probably signs that she was slipping. Could the roof incident have been avoided? Who knows? Were there perhaps previous incidents no one knows about? And which do we want here, an elder caregiver being proactive and trying to avoid these very situations, or independence that puts someone's life at risk? Perhaps there were no signs this lady would slip into this type dissociation from reality to where the roof looked like a great place to play.
I agree that elders deserve for us to sometimes take a step back and allow them to think and plan and decide for themselves. However, there comes a time with many when the subtle signs let you know that you are headed for a bigger problem or a more serious situation.
I cannot prevent my diabetic father from eating 4 donuts at the church gathering. I'm not there, I can't do it. All I can do is yes, remind him repeatedly just exactly why he shouldn't do that and maybe yes, give him a little fussing. Just as he would do to me if the situation were reversed, and yes - I am in touch with the fact that at 55 I am still the child. If that's treating him like a child, okey-dokey. My reasons for this are purely selfish, admittedly....not because I want to fuss or treat him like he doesn't have the power to make a good decision. My reasons are that it will possibly destroy his health and I will lose him over donuts. He will exit my life over sugar and flour? Seriously? To not say, "Dad - you cannot do that" - to avoid that convo - to say, "Well, he's an adult so he can just damn do as he pleases and whatever happens, happens" - who's acting childish in that scenario?
Every single situation, every single person has to be evaluated exclusively, you can't make blanket statements. I do agree, OP, with preserving as much dignity, independence, and choice as possible. It's just that it ain't always possible.
What this boils down to is: When does the family or friends step in and "do something?" At some point, most of us would be unable to safely live alone.
Soooo, since death will come to us all, do we just sit back and let it happen, or do we try to postpone that day? There is no "cut off point."
The problem is that the older a person gets, it can be 60 or 90, the less able they are to be able to make an adult decision. They have the right to make that decision, but should others be prevented from deciding whether or not they should be protected from making a poor decision.
My own problems make it possible to just up and die one day. It's my hope that if I put off going into some sort of care home, that I will die and it won't be neccessary. I think a lot of the elderly think that way......that surely they will up and die before they need care.
Some of us can, and should, be allowed to decide. Others need someone to decide for them. It's not something that can be written down in black and white.
What is the correct answer today, will be terribly wrong tomorrow. And the family lives with the results of that decision.
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