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Well, as many of you know, my mother (who has reasoning and vision deficits due to a stroke ten years ago, untreated bipolar disorder, an eating disorder, and a broken hip) is home from the hospital and rehab. Physically, she has recovered well from the broken hip - she is able to walk with a cane now!
She broke her hip a month ago. When she was admitted, her blood work showed many imbalances and deficiencies due to her eating disorder. She is 5'10" and now weighs about 119. Her normal, healthy weight she weighed for decades is 155. While she was in the hospital and rehab, she was told repeatedly by every medical professional who met with her that she was malnourished and that she needs to gain weight. Nearly all of her prescriptions she left with are for various nutritional supplements. They also started her on Zoloft.
She is under the care of a general practitioner, an extremely unresponsive and aloof neuropsychiatrist, her surgeon (who is only concerned about the hip - period), and physical therapy.
Her general practitioner seems like a good guy, and competent, but I'm pretty sure that geriatrics is not his area of expertise. The neuropsychiatrist is extremely difficult to reach - the best way to reach him is through the general practitioner and I feel we're getting everything second hand that way.
My mom has mentally degenerated significantly since the fall, surgery, etc. I mean, the downward trajectory is alarming and isn't improving - in fact, she seems worse mentally every day. The good news is that she doesn't seem depressed or angry. The bad news is that her short term memory is failing so quickly that she seems at times to be in a pleasant enough but mildly confusing fog. She knows who people are, but she can no longer remember birthdays, or many pertinent happenings, and she ESPECIALLY can't remember things that have happened recently.
I have no idea what she does all day. She doesn't read anymore, she doesn't watch TV (she can't seem to follow any of that), she no longer gets online. She talks on the phone but she doesn't remember the phone conversations - and a phone conversation with her is getting more and more difficult. It's like she can't follow the usual pattern or something.
Me: Hey, Mom - what have you been up to today?
Mom: Ohhhhh, the usual. (long pause)
Me: Well, did you talk to any of your buddies on the phone today?
Mom: (Long pause) Ohhhhh, yes. I did. (Long pause)
Me: Well is there any interesting news from anyone?
Mom: (Long pause) Why do you ask? Should there be? What are you talking about?
Me: No, I just mean, did anyone have anything interesting to say? Any news from your hometown?
Mom: Well, let's see...Oh, I talked with Betty.
Me: OK - what news does Betty have?
Mom: (Long pause) OK, we talked about the funeral.
Me: Whose funeral? Did someone we know die?
Mom: Hmmmm, let me see....someone died. I can't remember who. Anyway, we talked about the funeral.
Me: Has it already happened?
Mom: Has what happened?
Me: The funeral.
Mom: I guess. I don't know. (Long pause)
Me: Well, have you watched any of the Call the Midwife series?
Mom: Should I have? I've seen them all.
Me: Well, there's a new season out. Remember, we watched the first one the other day together.
Mom: Oh, I don't recall that. No. I didn't know there was a new series out so of course I haven't watched any of them.
AUGH. AUGH. AUGH.
But the biggest issue is her eating, or lack thereof. Every meal has been an emotional drain. It is very tiring to try to get an adult who doesn't want to eat, to eat. Every single bite is a major production. In between bites she busies herself with food, but isn't eating it - tapping the plate, cutting things into pieces the size of a fingernail, moving things around. We say, after listening to this incessant tapping and scraping and watching the total lack of productivity for what seems like an hour, "Ok, pick that up and put it in your mouth," and she says, "I AM eating this - can't you see I'm eating?" "No, I see you pushing food around, but not eating." To which she replies to either my dad or me (or both of us), (heavy sigh), "I am trying to enjoy my meal. Clearly I am eating. I wish you wouldn't harass me. There is nothing wrong with the way I eat." At that point, she ups the drama level - dramatic gestures as she brings the fork (with a tiny morsel of food on it) to her lips, drops the piece of food, taps around on the plate again, manages to get a piece to hang on the end of a fork prong, slowly brings it back up to her mouth, grimaces as she puts it to her lips - OMG, it is maddening. It's as if we're trying to force her to eat toxic waste!!!!
My dad has been trying to cook good, fattening meals - he has really poured his heart into it, calling me from the grocery store for ingredients, or calling me after cooking something yummy - he's really discovered that he enjoys many aspects of cooking - until he tries to get my mom to eat. Then it's like his hopes are dashed. And he forces her to weigh herself once a week - and she's losing about a pound a week.
His blood pressure has been erratic - the stress is getting to him. Plus, he's just sad. He told me yesterday, "She slept all through Sunday School and church, and the people in the Sunday School class are treating her differently - I can see it. I mean, they're nice but they're talking to her differently. And she's confused - we always hold hands and pray at the end of class, and instead, she just suddenly woke up, grabbed her purse, stood up and pushed past people to get out the door. My wife is losing it!"
Well, she's BEEN losing it for a couple of years now but it really seems to have accelerated.
Which brings me to the point of my post. This sounds so awful, but I am beginning to think that she is never going to get better - that she is in a decline and after watching the agony of my mother in law's three year decline I'm not sure just what it is we're trying to accomplish here. I mean, does my mother WANT to keep her body going? I'm honestly not sure she does - and I'm not sure I would want to either if my mind was gone or going.
I asked her yesterday, "Mom, do you think you are eating enough food to regain your health?" She would not answer that question - instead, she would go into this long spiel about how much more food she's eating, which isn't even true - she's making a show of pretending to eat but the proof is in the pudding so to speak - in the scale. So I said, "But you're still losing weight, so whatever it is you're doing, it's not enough, right? In order to gain weight and get your health back, you need to eat more food - do you agree with that?" She wouldn't agree - all she would say is, "I am eating more. I don't see what the problem is." (She has been screened extensively for any other cause of weight loss - she just doesn't eat enough to maintain or gain weight.) My dad and I said, "We are tired of fighting with you and trying to force you to eat - but we're alarmed by your weakness and your weight loss. Do you understand that we're trying to get you to eat more out of concern and love?" "Yes," she said, "But I AM eating more, so I wish you'd leave me alone about it."
My dad and I were talking afterwards and I said, "Dad, one thing I think is pretty certain - she can't help this. So there's no point in being mad at her. Maybe instead of confrontations and finagling, we should just focus on helping her enjoy each day. And meanwhile, I think we need to get a referral to a doctor who specializes in geriatrics so that we can adjust our expectations and our approach based on what her abilities are and what her prognosis is."
Is this giving up? Are we just giving up on my Mom? Because that's what it feels like.
I'm so sorry about your mother's mental decline. The hip she definitely can recover from (and seems like she has - so good for her). The mental issues are much trickier. Has she actually gotten a diagnosis of dementia? Could this be a prescription side effect/interaction? I think she started on some medications recently - could the "fog" be a part of that?
As far as "Which brings me to the point of my post. This sounds so awful, but I am beginning to think that she is never going to get better - that she is in a decline and after watching the agony of my mother in law's three year decline I'm not sure just what it is we're trying to accomplish here. I mean, does my mother WANT to keep her body going? I'm honestly not sure she does - and I'm not sure I would want to either if my mind was gone or going." - the only way to determine that is to in fact ask her.
Don't ask her if she thinks she's eating enough to recover. Ask her is she is currently wanting to die. You can be polite about it, but you need to be blunt.
My father was famous for putting things off - medically. When he moved in with me, he continued to do this, in regards to dialysis access/etc. He was happy enough with the status quo and didn't want the procedure they were telling him he had to have. So, rather than arguing with him (for the 100th time!) I simply said, "Dad - if you don't want to have this procedure, that you have to have in order to ensure continued dialysis, does this mean that you're ready to pack it in and you're okay if you die in a few months?"
He tried to argue back that it wasn't that serious, etc.. etc.. and I just calmly reiterated - "dialysis is necessary for you to live, they are saying this procedure is necessary for you to continue dialysis without significant complication/risk of infection - you don't want this procedure, therefore you'll not be able to continue dialysis the next time an event occurs... therefore are you ready to call it quits?"
He was not. He had the procedure. Here he is 5 years later.. He doesn't like procedures, and I don't put him through them if they're not medically necessary. And the day will come when a procedure will be too invasive and not worth the recovery/risks. But my dad still wants to live (he's got to get his baseball team through another season!). And so we do what is necessary. When that equation changes, so will what measures we take.
So if you think your mom doesn't, you need to talk to her. Or have your father do it. Because it could be that she wants very much to live and isn't realizing that her compromised nutrition could shorten her life. Or it could be that she really doesn't want to go on fighting, in which case you and your dad will need to make some decisions about how things are handled.
My very best to you, your father, and your mom. I wish the best for you all.
I'm so sorry about your mother's mental decline. The hip she definitely can recover from (and seems like she has - so good for her). The mental issues are much trickier. Has she actually gotten a diagnosis of dementia? Could this be a prescription side effect/interaction? I think she started on some medications recently - could the "fog" be a part of that?
As far as "Which brings me to the point of my post. This sounds so awful, but I am beginning to think that she is never going to get better - that she is in a decline and after watching the agony of my mother in law's three year decline I'm not sure just what it is we're trying to accomplish here. I mean, does my mother WANT to keep her body going? I'm honestly not sure she does - and I'm not sure I would want to either if my mind was gone or going." - the only way to determine that is to in fact ask her.
Don't ask her if she thinks she's eating enough to recover. Ask her is she is currently wanting to die. You can be polite about it, but you need to be blunt.
My father was famous for putting things off - medically. When he moved in with me, he continued to do this, in regards to dialysis access/etc. He was happy enough with the status quo and didn't want the procedure they were telling him he had to have. So, rather than arguing with him (for the 100th time!) I simply said, "Dad - if you don't want to have this procedure, that you have to have in order to ensure continued dialysis, does this mean that you're ready to pack it in and you're okay if you die in a few months?"
He tried to argue back that it wasn't that serious, etc.. etc.. and I just calmly reiterated - "dialysis is necessary for you to live, they are saying this procedure is necessary for you to continue dialysis without significant complication/risk of infection - you don't want this procedure, therefore you'll not be able to continue dialysis the next time an event occurs... therefore are you ready to call it quits?"
He was not. He had the procedure. Here he is 5 years later.. He doesn't like procedures, and I don't put him through them if they're not medically necessary. And the day will come when a procedure will be too invasive and not worth the recovery/risks. But my dad still wants to live (he's got to get his baseball team through another season!). And so we do what is necessary. When that equation changes, so will what measures we take.
So if you think your mom doesn't, you need to talk to her. Or have your father do it. Because it could be that she wants very much to live and isn't realizing that her compromised nutrition could shorten her life. Or it could be that she really doesn't want to go on fighting, in which case you and your dad will need to make some decisions about how things are handled.
My very best to you, your father, and your mom. I wish the best for you all.
Thank you so much for this well thought out response. I really appreciate it.
I didn't give the whole run down of the conversation my dad and I had with my mom yesterday. We did ask her (gently) if she was aware that she wasn't eating enough to sustain her health and that she is shortening her life expectancy - in fact, going to die - with this style of eating - is she aware of that?She would not answer the question. No surprise there. She just said, "I am eating what I want to eat." That may be enough of an answer right there.
So then we said, "OK, so...you know that you're not eating enough to be healthy and to get better. Right?" No answer, but no denial either. Then we said, "Do you realize that we've been pressuring you and begging you to eat more because we love you and we're concerned about you?" She said, "Yes, I understand that," which was good to know. Then we said, "But we don't want to argue with you every day and have all this stress between us. It doesn't seem like you're choosing to eat what will help you regain your health but we also don't feel like this stress is helpful either. Do you want us to quit pressuring you to eat more?" She sat and thought about this for a little bit and then said, "Yes. I want you to let me eat what I want to eat and quit trying to get me to eat more. I AM eating more." And I said, "Well, OK. In a way that relieves me, but it also makes me sad, because your choices don't seem to be healthy. Frankly, it seems like you're starving yourself intentionally. But I guess that's your choice." She said, "I think so," and then got up, went into the kitchen, got a tiny bowl of ice cream, and sat down in front of me and began tapping at it and torturing it to death before eating it. Then she said, "See - I'm eating ice cream." OK. Whatever you want!
As for the diagnosis of dementia, six months ago she had a baseline and very comprehensive neurological study done. The doctor said he suspected vascular dementia, in addition to brain damage from the stroke. She did fairly well on most of the tests for memory, but things like patterns, organized thought, etc were really jacked up. At the least, the doctor said, she is at high risk for vascular dementia. He recommended meds for her bipolar disorder, therapy to help her accept that she has some mental challenges (she won't comply to any treatment for them if she doesn't accept that it's an issue), physical therapy to help her with her balance and spatial orientation, and meds to slow memory loss. He also noted that it was highly unlikely that she would comply with any of this advice - and he was exactly right, because as usual she refused to believe that there was anything wrong with her, and of course refused any treatment. In fact, she believed that the whole thing was a set up to discredit her in some way.
So she was slipping precariously six months ago - actually earlier than that (we started seeing a decline in her mental aptitudes about two years ago), but things really picked up steam about six months ago. She just started the Zoloft about a week ago and the mental confusion (and rapid increase in it) started prior to that. HOWEVER - she doesn't seem depressed - and she is prone to bouts of depression (of course, since she's bipolar). Nor does she seem manic. That being said, she hasn't really seemed depressed or manic within the past few months - I honestly think that the dementia may be sort of flattening her emotions. I mean, she's had some morose days but they've been short lived - just a day, not a week or a month. And she's had a lot going on that could cause some depression or morose feelings so honestly, these seemed like pretty normal responses.
I talked with my dad yesterday and told him that we have GOT to get her in to see a geriatric specialist, someone who can tell us what to expect, what to try, what not to expect, what not to try, what to fight and what to accept. My mother is so out of touch with her real feelings - she always has been - she simply cannot articulate her emotions so I think it's a stretch to expect her to be able to "own" choosing not to fight to live. I think she would rather pretend than admit it. I think she thinks it's morally wrong not to fight to live - but that she doesn't particularly WANT to fight to live. That's the feeling I'm getting anyway. And frankly, I don't know what to do with that. So if we manipulate her into eating more, getting more physically healthy and yet we're constantly arguing with her or cajoling her, and meanwhile, her mind is slipping down the rabbit hole - what have we really gained for her in the end? A couple of more years of fog and confusion? A heart attack for my dad? A few more years of misery for both of them?
Ideally, she needs a geriatric psychiatrist and a therapist, and a geriatric primary care doctor would be great too. Neuropsychiatry is not a traditional specialty that takes care of patients, so this is not likely the best doctor for her. The fact that he is difficult to reach is another indication. However, it is incredibly difficult to find good psychiatrists, and you usually need a separate counselor/therapist as well.
Not realistic, I know.
You should look around for a support group for caregivers of those with eating disorders. Most at the group will be talking about their teenage daughters, but you will learn some basic approaches on how to deal with the food issue. If you can't find a NAMI group near you (look again and email/call) then look for the Alzeimer's association support group near you. This will still be helpful for general strategies.
I completely agree that you need to back down and stop the fixation on food. It will not help. You can't force someone to eat. Eating disorders are extremely difficult to treat. And psychiatric disorders often get worse with aging when they are not treated properly. It is what it is.
This is hard, but you all need to back down. I completely agree that you need to focus on the day to day. Try to stop fixating on all of her memory problems....remembering all the details....confronting her. Stop that. It only upsets you and her. She has cognitive problems. It is probably related to her psychiatric disease, nutritional deficiencies, decline due to her hospitalization, etc... Just try to set up the house so that it isn't dangerous for her, and start thinking about how you will start setting up assistance for your Dad if/when she gets worse.
And this help shouldn't be you.
Talk with her primary doc by phone and ?whoever is managing her psych meds to alert them of the situation. Make sure she has follow-up appointments very soon. And then leave it to the doctors. Honestly, I would stick with the docs that know her for now.
I'm sorry it is so hard. My heart really goes out to our Dad. Focus your energy on supporting him.
A new geriatric specialist (you mean primary care?) will not be as helpful as you hope. They will not have experience with eating disorder, bipolar etc.... So if you go to the trouble of finding a new geriatric doc, only do this if they are a part of a multi-disciplinary clinic that includes nurse practioners, social workers, and geriatric psychiatrists. This is much more efficient.
Your discussion with her about eating was excellent.
I agree that a good geriatric psychiatrist can do wonders for a patient. Over the last ten years my husband has had two geriatric psychiatrists (one retired two years ago). They helped him ten times more than all of his other doctors put together. The only exceptions have been for medical issues of a very specific nature such as the oncologist who did his colon cancer surgery or the neurologist who did the initial treatment of his TBI.
I am not joking that if you add up the help that ALL of his other doctors did over the years the geriatric psychiatrists helped him ten times more, heck maybe even twenty times more.
I also agree that you should try to find a doctor that specializes in eating disorders. While I do not know a lot about it, I do know that it can be very, very tricky for loved ones. If you focus on eating it often has the opposite effect and the person will eat less and less, slower and slower to draw out the attention that they are being given by others.
Kathyrn, I wish you the best.
I'll share one more thing. Ten years ago, my husband nearly died several times connected to complications with colon cancer. But the cancer was totally surgically removed, the chemotherapy had cured the possibility of it returning & his medications were all stabilized. The only thing was that he was down to about 120 pounds from his normal of about 160 and he was not eating very much. My husband hated hospitals and his geriatric psychiatrist (who he trusted & respected very much) told him point blank, something like this.
"If you do not start to eat more you will die. (long, long pause)
Your wife and children love you very much and want to spend many more years with you. (long, long pause)
"If you do not start to eat more you will die. (long, long pause)
If you choose to not eat, I will be forced to hospitalize you under suicide watch." (or maybe he said hospice care, I really do not recall)
My husband turned the corner and started to eat more that very day. He was back to 160 pounds in six months.
Of course, it was a completely different situation, but when the doctor, who my husband trusted and respected said it out loud, without a lot of extra words my husband listened.
Me: Hey, Mom - what have you been up to today?
Mom: Ohhhhh, the usual. (long pause)
Me: Well, did you talk to any of your buddies on the phone today?
Mom: (Long pause) Ohhhhh, yes. I did. (Long pause)
Me: Well is there any interesting news from anyone?
Mom: (Long pause) Why do you ask? Should there be? What are you talking about?
Me: No, I just mean, did anyone have anything interesting to say? Any news from your hometown?
Mom: Well, let's see...Oh, I talked with Betty.
Me: OK - what news does Betty have?
Mom: (Long pause) OK, we talked about the funeral.
Me: Whose funeral? Did someone we know die?
Mom: Hmmmm, let me see....someone died. I can't remember who. Anyway, we talked about the funeral.
Me: Has it already happened?
Mom: Has what happened?
Me: The funeral.
Mom: I guess. I don't know. (Long pause)
Me: Well, have you watched any of the Call the Midwife series?
Mom: Should I have? I've seen them all.
Me: Well, there's a new season out. Remember, we watched the first one the other day together.
Mom: Oh, I don't recall that. No. I didn't know there was a new series out so of course I haven't watched any of them.
Kathryn, my mother has advanced Alzheimer's. A long time ago I started just talking TO her instead of trying to have a back and forth with a lot of questions. For instance, rather than asking her questions to engage her, I would simply start talking...about my day...about my attempts at gardening and wishing she could help me create a garden as beautiful as the ones she created at her home...about something funny my dog did...or about someone I ran into who asked about her. She enjoyed having the contact, she would smile a lot, and it relieved her of having to keep up a conversation that she wasn't able to keep up with.
[/quote]
Is this giving up? Are we just giving up on my Mom? Because that's what it feels like.
This SUCKS.[/quote]
No, it's not giving up at all. Older people simply don't want to eat -- they don't have any taste or appetite for most things except for sweets, their bodies use less calories, and trying to force them into it doesn't help them or you. Give her the food but try to resist the urge to pressure her to eat. People who are experts in elder care say that the traditional ways of dining that we cherish (with people around, background music, etc) actually create a negative environment for some elderly diners, which is why a lot of nursing home residents won't eat in the dining room with others and noise/distractions.
Try just serving her food and letting her pick at it and eat it at the pace she wishes. Of course this will require things that can be served at room temperature, and you can't have it go on too long or risk food poisoning. It's also OK to just let her have a big milkshake -- containing some real milk and fruit -- as a meal replacement if she'll drink it.
I've read many of your posts and I understand a lot of what you go through! I also see you as a very caring, loving dutiful daughter who wants to do the right thing. I also have a habit of trying to do everything and make everything right. But try not to take too much of this on your shoulders. It is what it is and you really don't have a lot of control over it, as much as you'd like to. Hugs.
Well, as many of you know, my mother (who has reasoning and vision deficits due to a stroke ten years ago, untreated bipolar disorder, an eating disorder, and a broken hip) is home from the hospital and rehab. Physically, she has recovered well from the broken hip - she is able to walk with a cane now!
She broke her hip a month ago. When she was admitted, her blood work showed many imbalances and deficiencies due to her eating disorder. She is 5'10" and now weighs about 119. Her normal, healthy weight she weighed for decades is 155. While she was in the hospital and rehab, she was told repeatedly by every medical professional who met with her that she was malnourished and that she needs to gain weight. Nearly all of her prescriptions she left with are for various nutritional supplements. They also started her on Zoloft.
How long has she been taking the Zoloft? It could take up to 6-8 weeks for it to truly start working.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
She is under the care of a general practitioner, an extremely unresponsive and aloof neuropsychiatrist, her surgeon (who is only concerned about the hip - period), and physical therapy.
Her general practitioner seems like a good guy, and competent, but I'm pretty sure that geriatrics is not his area of expertise. The neuropsychiatrist is extremely difficult to reach - the best way to reach him is through the general practitioner and I feel we're getting everything second hand that way.
My mom has mentally degenerated significantly since the fall, surgery, etc. I mean, the downward trajectory is alarming and isn't improving - in fact, she seems worse mentally every day. The good news is that she doesn't seem depressed or angry. The bad news is that her short term memory is failing so quickly that she seems at times to be in a pleasant enough but mildly confusing fog. She knows who people are, but she can no longer remember birthdays, or many pertinent happenings, and she ESPECIALLY can't remember things that have happened recently.
I have no idea what she does all day. She doesn't read anymore, she doesn't watch TV (she can't seem to follow any of that), she no longer gets online. She talks on the phone but she doesn't remember the phone conversations - and a phone conversation with her is getting more and more difficult. It's like she can't follow the usual pattern or something.
Is there a new routine? Could she be adjusting to that? That could contribute to confusion and fog.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
But the biggest issue is her eating, or lack thereof. Every meal has been an emotional drain. It is very tiring to try to get an adult who doesn't want to eat, to eat. Every single bite is a major production. In between bites she busies herself with food, but isn't eating it - tapping the plate, cutting things into pieces the size of a fingernail, moving things around. We say, after listening to this incessant tapping and scraping and watching the total lack of productivity for what seems like an hour, "Ok, pick that up and put it in your mouth," and she says, "I AM eating this - can't you see I'm eating?" "No, I see you pushing food around, but not eating." To which she replies to either my dad or me (or both of us), (heavy sigh), "I am trying to enjoy my meal. Clearly I am eating. I wish you wouldn't harass me. There is nothing wrong with the way I eat." At that point, she ups the drama level - dramatic gestures as she brings the fork (with a tiny morsel of food on it) to her lips, drops the piece of food, taps around on the plate again, manages to get a piece to hang on the end of a fork prong, slowly brings it back up to her mouth, grimaces as she puts it to her lips - OMG, it is maddening. It's as if we're trying to force her to eat toxic waste!!!!
My dad has been trying to cook good, fattening meals - he has really poured his heart into it, calling me from the grocery store for ingredients, or calling me after cooking something yummy - he's really discovered that he enjoys many aspects of cooking - until he tries to get my mom to eat. Then it's like his hopes are dashed. And he forces her to weigh herself once a week - and she's losing about a pound a week.
His blood pressure has been erratic - the stress is getting to him. Plus, he's just sad. He told me yesterday, "She slept all through Sunday School and church, and the people in the Sunday School class are treating her differently - I can see it. I mean, they're nice but they're talking to her differently. And she's confused - we always hold hands and pray at the end of class, and instead, she just suddenly woke up, grabbed her purse, stood up and pushed past people to get out the door. My wife is losing it!"
How is her fluid intake? If she gets too dehydrated, you're going to have even more issues. How is she sleeping at night? How has that changed because you never mentioned her sleeping at church before, as you mention above.
You may reap better rewards with mom by focusing your efforts on supporting your dad. He needs you perhaps in a more urgent way than your mom does. Is your church a source of support for you and your dad? How is your dad taking care of himself? Is he getting good social interaction and respite?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon
Which brings me to the point of my post. This sounds so awful, but I am beginning to think that she is never going to get better - that she is in a decline and after watching the agony of my mother in law's three year decline I'm not sure just what it is we're trying to accomplish here. I mean, does my mother WANT to keep her body going? I'm honestly not sure she does - and I'm not sure I would want to either if my mind was gone or going.
I asked her yesterday, "Mom, do you think you are eating enough food to regain your health?" She would not answer that question - instead, she would go into this long spiel about how much more food she's eating, which isn't even true - she's making a show of pretending to eat but the proof is in the pudding so to speak - in the scale. So I said, "But you're still losing weight, so whatever it is you're doing, it's not enough, right? In order to gain weight and get your health back, you need to eat more food - do you agree with that?" She wouldn't agree - all she would say is, "I am eating more. I don't see what the problem is." (She has been screened extensively for any other cause of weight loss - she just doesn't eat enough to maintain or gain weight.) My dad and I said, "We are tired of fighting with you and trying to force you to eat - but we're alarmed by your weakness and your weight loss. Do you understand that we're trying to get you to eat more out of concern and love?" "Yes," she said, "But I AM eating more, so I wish you'd leave me alone about it."
My dad and I were talking afterwards and I said, "Dad, one thing I think is pretty certain - she can't help this. So there's no point in being mad at her. Maybe instead of confrontations and finagling, we should just focus on helping her enjoy each day. And meanwhile, I think we need to get a referral to a doctor who specializes in geriatrics so that we can adjust our expectations and our approach based on what her abilities are and what her prognosis is."
Is this giving up? Are we just giving up on my Mom? Because that's what it feels like.
This SUCKS.
You aren't giving up. You're too good a daughter to give up. I think you're probably a really bad quitter. You do need to make adjustments to the decline. It's very hard to do. We all know that; we're all living it in different ways but there's no getting around the fact that every time you stop and notice it your heart breaks just a little more. When you know you have to accept new normals and adjust it's hard. You are so right, it just sucks!
It times like this you know just how strong you are...
It is a very hard position to be in as the roles are reversed.
Going through similar with memory with mom.
I know it won't get better... yet, with my help she does OK.
She has the opposite problem... after a lifetime of being fit... she over eats.
We will have dinner together which she prepared... and then totally forget she had dinner and will start cooking a whole new dinner an hour later.
She never did sweets and now is always hungry and goes through a lot of ice cream even saying I need to cut back because it doesn't last... I have not had so much a spoon for ice cream in over a year.
It really is hard when the person was a charge nurse and ran a Hospital floor for many years and was very well liked.
The other day was her birthday and she did get some nice cards... one older couple said they wanted to drop by for a visit and will be in the area this week...
They called me and said Mom had called them 4 times on Saturday saying she is looking forward to seeing them and thanking them for the card.
Each time she picks up the card it is like for the first time.
I'm lucky in that her shift has been to be even more thoughtful and caring...
All I can say is we take things one day at a time and she has wonderful neighbors of 45 years that understand...
You have it double because of the physical decline... if that happened I would probably have to quit work as I am the only one that is close and she really does well with me around to give her little reminders...
Last night she had a list for the market... so we went together... she kept saying she had never been to that market and what city are we in... it is the same market she has gone to for 45 years and same gas station on the corner which she did not recognize.
...
I also agree that you should try to find a doctor that specializes in eating disorders. While I do not know a lot about it, I do know that it can be very, very tricky for loved ones. If you focus on eating it often has the opposite effect and the person will eat less and less, slower and slower to draw out the attention that they are being given by others.
...
Kathyrn, I wish you the best.
What do you think would happen if you and your dad completely stopped urging your mother to eat?
Of course, he would fix a meal and give himself a plate of food and give her a plate of food but not say a word about eating it. Perhaps, he would say things out loud like "yum, the chicken tastes great tonight" but not ask her if she likes the chicken, too. He could talk about every day topics except for food and just sit there enjoying his meal and ignoring her cutting, tapping and pushing the food around her plate.
When they are watching TV, he could just get a bowl of ice cream for himself and for her and just set it down next to her. He can then enjoy his ice cream, perhaps saying a few comments like "Wow, this chocolate marble ice cream really hits the spot!" or "I love this brand of Butter Pecan ice cream. It has so many nuts in it!" but never telling her or encouraging her to eat her ice cream.
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My husband loves Pepsi and will rarely, rarely get anything else to drink, on his own. But, when I hand him his pills (three groups, morning, noon & night) I will also silently hand him a glass of chocolate milk, juice or water with it and he will drink the entire glass either with the pills or within a few minutes. Heck, this morning he drank a full glass of juice AND a full glass of chocolate milk (although, that is unusual). I had noticed that the glass of juice was gone & he still had a lot of pills to take so I just silently handed him a glass of chocolate milk.
If I mention drinking more water or drinking juice or milk he will refuse but if I just hand him a glass or set it next to him on the table he will almost all the time drink it. They say the same thing at adult day care. If they ask him if he wants juice he will always say "No" or if they talk about it he will refuse to drink it but if they silently put a glass of juice next to his place he will almost always drink the entire glass.
I wonder if your mom is getting so much attention when she eats that if you completely stop talking about it she will start to eat more on her own?
I suspect that she will be like a little kid when you stop giving them attention for a bad habit it will become worse before it gets better. She may start to tap louder, move the food faster, insist that she is eating louder and louder the first few days, but after that ----assuming that no one talks about food or encourages her to eat-----she may start to eat more on her own.
What do you think would happen if you try that? I mean, really, really try it for at least a week or two (not just for a couple of meals).
Last edited by germaine2626; 04-04-2016 at 12:05 PM..
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