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While I have not read through this entire thread. I had Hospice for both of my parents in 2014. I am sure the level of care if different in each area. The company I had was so instrumental in those last few months. I could not have survived without them. The care they gave to both my mom and my step dad was outstanding. Never did they want to over medicate either of them. It was obvious my parents were going to die.
I am sorry for what you are going through. Losing someone you love is never easy.
Also, my understanding was that hospice disallows treatment of the fatal illness but not of other illnesses. For example, if a person is hospiced with cancer being the fatal illness, treatment of influenza is not bared unless it is related to the cancer.
When my mom started hospice they discontinued all medications for the various ailments she had typical to someone her age, and did nothing to treat the leukemia and kidney failure that were killing her. But they did continue to administer the drops to treat her glaucoma as allowing her eyes to dry out could have caused her some discomfort.
The patient or POA and the doctor typically determine ahead of time what will be treated in hospice and what won't, but generally speaking I'd say the level of treatment for minor illnesses would usually depend on the amount of time the patient was expected to live and his or her quality of life. My mom wasn't expected to live 24 hours when she went to hospice and ended up hanging on three days, so it's unlikely any treatment at all would have been administered had she contracted a virus or infection. But I imagine they would treat someone who was expected to live a few weeks or months.
I just watched my MIL die an agonizing death in my home. The family kept saying no to the morphine, even while my MIL writhed in bed calling out. She would finally fall asleep and then someone would go in there and slap her and get her to wake up because people were there to see her.
It was so aggravating, these people are so selfish! I wanted to punch them!
Where the F are people's brains? It's not about THEM! OMG!!!! That poor woman! People are idiots.
Not treating a patient with a simple antibiotic for a UTI that is making her very uncomfortable shouldn't be considered a treatment.
I understand not receiving chemo or other treatments intended but not just a simple antibiotic.
The hospices here advertise on tv and radio. They encourage people to get on hospice sooner rather than later. They state that hospice is intended for those with less than a year to live.
A year is a long time to suffer with a very treatable infection. I thought the goal of hospice was to reduce suffering?
Giving an antibiotic IS giving treatment. Many people in hospice are on morphine. They shouldn't be feeling much at all. Hospice is for dying. Just because you're in hospice doesn't mean that there isn't any suffering unfortunately. Hospice also doesn't write scripts. They have to go by the medical plan given to them.
Yeah -- my mom found my dad dead in his chair. She knew he was gone. She called 911, and most of the team that came played golf with him.... and did their best to bring him back...but really, if they had succeeded what would have happened? He'd been dead long enough that the oxygen to his brain had been gone for several minutes.
My mom was friends with a woman who's husband had a severe heart condition. They filed a DNR properly, and when the time came, the doctor ignored it, decided that he had to be hero and save this man. Brought him back, made him a vegetable, who sucked her dry of all the money they earned and put together for a retirement.
We have to, as a society, understand that sometimes dead is better.
Very true! I don't understand how a DNR can just be ignored. It's a legal document! If you bring the person back against their written wishes, then you should be the one paying all those bills. Just having paramedics show up at your house can easily cost over a thousand bucks!
That doctor should have been reported and lost his license! He did NOT save anyone. He caused agony and suffering not to mention ignored a legal document that he knew about. He should have been the one paying all those medical bills. And to make a person a vegetable? Seriously? Aren't you supposed to do no harm?
I know a lot of people have very hard time dealing with death, but it is a part of life. We're ALL going to die! It's a fact. Some of us handle it better than others. But when people have explicitly written out their wishes, why the f are they ignored?
From reading most of the responses here, I'm encouraged that one day we'll be able to get the laws changed to make it easier for everyone to determine their final days. Both with regards to their physical condition and mental condition.
I personally would like to be able to sign a document that states that if I get to a certain level of dementia, then a shot could be administered and end my suffering and that of my family. Watching my parents go downhill has been one of the worst times of my life, and knowing they would never choose to live like this makes it all the more difficult.
Not everyone may agree, but it should be up to individual choice.
Very true! I don't understand how a DNR can just be ignored. It's a legal document! If you bring the person back against their written wishes, then you should be the one paying all those bills. Just having paramedics show up at your house can easily cost over a thousand bucks!
That doctor should have been reported and lost his license! He did NOT save anyone. He caused agony and suffering not to mention ignored a legal document that he knew about. He should have been the one paying all those medical bills. And to make a person a vegetable? Seriously? Aren't you supposed to do no harm?
I know a lot of people have very hard time dealing with death, but it is a part of life. We're ALL going to die! It's a fact. Some of us handle it better than others. But when people have explicitly written out their wishes, why the f are they ignored?
It was a the beginning of the DNR thing. So the doctor suffered no repercussions for his actions. 30 some years larer things have changed.
I've done hospice 3 times so far in the last 5 yrs. Three different patients, three different Hospice companies.
Yes most of my people died from Hospice Drug overdoses. I am sure that is rampid. They were on their death bed anyhow but to be responsible for two deaths, is something I still grapple with. After the first incident, I was aware the second and third time but still feel the drugs killed the second relative. He was in much pain. The third, no frickin way that would happen. Our family has decided to use the local hospital to get proper care for ourselves in our last days.
Hospice has an agenda which is linked to costs. Patients need to die within 6 months or hospice needs to re-certify them.. They do not like to do that. If that is done too often, the hospice companies are docked pay. They need to be able to somewhat estimate the death of the patient and only admit them if it is less than 6 months. This I understand... to some degree though it sounds harsh. Imagine otherwise, the abuses that could go on and the cost to taxpayers.
Over a year ago, I did online research as to why they push so many psychotropic drugs. One drug they wanted me to give my FIL was what my schizophrenic BIL takes!! No thank you. My FIL wasn't hallucinating and I saw no other reason to offer it. Nothing it addressed pertained to his health. They use the same select concoction of drugs. They LOVE morphine which causes a person to be very very thristy. More than which can be imagined. They can die of thirst as if they cannot swallow, no intervenous water is given. To die of thirst is a hell of a way to die, and to add a drug which exasperates that thrist 100 fold, well you really need to be confident you are offsetting some other pain which is worse. Often that is not the case.
Last go around it was done correctly with my FIL.
I kept them while he was coherent then cancelled services. I left for a break for just 1 hour and he, being in his 90's, had very thin skin. It was time to replace his pain patch which I said I would do. The hospice Nurse pulled it off, and it tore his skin. Only maybe about 1/2 inch. He was already very weak. He refused morphine already and the relentless calls to my home to ask my husband for permission to over-ride it was wearing us thin. I am just the daughter in law.
He was coherent and able to answer hospice for himself which they didn't seem happy about.
Knowing their agenda well, I asked her to leave. For Good. DO NOT LEAVE THEM ALONE. They act sweet as pie but have a dark agenda.
We had three different hospice companies because I've done hospice three times in the last 5 yrs. They are all the same. The larger hospice had more resources, they offered more support and help. Hospice is good but YOU NEED to babysit them and keep the Nurses in Line. YOU ARE in charge, don't allow them to pressure you into drugging your loved one. You need to do your own re-search and go by your gut instincts. It is needed sometimes but they do not have the array of medications a hospital provides. There is a select few they push, irregardless of their side effects when other medications are tolerable but not on the hospice "approved list" Try to get proper meds from your patients personal doctor if possible. Take your loved one to their personal doctor and ask questions, explain what is going on. Don't trust the Hospice Nurses try to discourage you from taking them to see their personal Doctor. They will deny they are trying to do so.
When my FIL was really sick, we had him admitted to the hospital (which is a no no w/hospice). He called himself. He was treated and released. That means you cannot have hospice come back after that as you've signed a contract to not allow them proper medical care or you loose your rights to hospice services. Or maybe they re-certified him again, but it was a very short time. My memory is foggy on that. It's all about $$ which it shouldn't be.
When your loved one is ill, take them to the hospital where they can be property cared for and not OD on powerful drugs so to kill them off sooner. Hospice is a great resource, if monitored and used in the early stages. They send a lady to help bathe your loved one, she's probably the only safe one you don't need to monitor. I really liked all those ladies. Nurses perform some medical tests though often hiding the results. Or just not telling you of some of the tests and their results. Grab the results from their hands,remaining very sweet but then you know what's what. Write it down. You need to PRESSURE them bigtime for tests results then go online to see what those results mean. Our last hsopice nurse was a lady I went to high school with so knew somewhat. Hospice nurses are very sneaky. They are not typical nurses with a conscious. They won't hire you unless you adhere to their brainwashing to kill loved ones off quicker. They are told they are doing them a favor. Hospice has caused the largest hollocaust in history, no doubt. I don't feel like reading thru this thread but I am sure others have similar experiences.
Also the Hsopice nurses DO NOT have the right to take your loved ones medication upon their death. Within an hour, I was pressured to pour it all out into a bag of kitty litter. Do you know how traumatic that was, and how difficult it is to count each and every pill right after his death? They give way too much medication which is fine, so you don't worry you'll run out but it's a ton to count in the ned. I finally got pissed off and asked her to leave. Again. That I was keeping this good medication and it would be used for something, not wasted being thrown into kitty litter. So I donated it to a retired Doctor friend who is with the Flying Doctors (they go help people in other countries) he was really mad they pressured me to do that. He's an Seventh Day Adventist and they do many missions in poor countries.
Last edited by NancyDrew1; 12-14-2016 at 01:26 PM..
Keep it on your person. Keep a copy in every home (may need to be notarized or certified in some manner) that the person will be in. My brother is a paramedic. If you tell a first responder that there is a DNR but you left it at their house, HE HAS TO RESUSITATE. It is the law. S/He MUST see the DNR. They can't just take your word for it. A paramedic he knows has it tattooed on his arm, with his signature - that's how serious it is.
First planned parenthood then hospice... what's next to be politicized the Salvation Army?
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