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We spent almost an hour with the vet there discussing her and what's going on. But since she was so stressed out just from the ride to the Animal Hosp, he didn't want to keep her overnight. She may need sedation when we travel - that's #1.
#2. She is 7 lbs overweight and must loose weight - we discussed how this is safely done in a multi-cat household. Her vulva is out of her reach and she must keep it clean which she apparently can't do. She may have a URI. But since she peed on her blanket in the carrier, something she has never done before, her bladder was empty. They couldn't get even a drop from her.
#3. She may suffer from stress and have "Feline idiopathic cystitis"but not from a 48 hr trip. We discussed it and it appears Sheba, the FIV+ cat living outside is the source - if it's stress caused. But again, urine was needed for that test. Callie never accepted Sheba so Sheba lives outside but Callie can see her every day. The vet feels this is stressful since Callie can't get to Sheba and run her off what she feels is her territory. It's stressful and frustrating for Callie. If indeed it is stress related. We don't know yet.
#4. The abnormal appetite will also be addressed. They'll use a process of elimination. Each test more or less telling them where to look next. What test should be done next. He felt confident we'll find the problem.
#5. Early tomorrow morning we have to drop her off so they can get urine. She'll have to stay there until she has some in her bladder. Then they'll take it from there.....
That's about all we learned today. Her mild gingivitis, which she's had since the day I got her, is the same. It is not getting worse. She's negative for FIV and FeLV. She's parasite free.
On August 18, 2015 you told us:
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Originally Posted by =^..^=
She been more active than she's been in weeks. We can see she feels better.
They had to use a needle to get sterile urine from Callie's bladder and send it to a lab in the city to make sure she has no URI. I'm glad I didn't have to watch. It goes through the abdomen as I understand. Her urine was clear but since she peed on a washcloth that fell from the laundry basket the other day, he wanted to be 100% sure. All the throw rugs are still put away. The Lab will check it and I should have the results by Wednesday or Thursday. If no sign of infection, she has to go on some kind of anti-anxiety meds. She does urinate in the litter box but seems she will also urinate on anything "cloth" laying on the floor.
Now you are back, with the same problems, apparently having tried none of the suggestions given you by the vet or by anyone in this forum. And still rejecting all suggestions. So yeah, I might sound a little frustrated.
There is no "test" for FIC. The way to treat it is by reducing stress as much as possible, perhaps giving anxiety meds like amitriptyline (but those can cause weight gain and Callie needs to lose 7 pounds already, that should take about 14 months) and/or using supplements known to help with inflammation in the urinary tract.
Incidentally the sedative effect of these meds does wear off after a few weeks. But I wouldn't use them until she's lost most of the weight, anyway. I'd go with the supplements I recommended earlier and in this thread.
D-mannose acts as an adhesive, attaching to anything that does not belong in the bladder and moving it out. When there is discomfort in the UT, the D-mannose works almost instantly to remove that discomfort. I know because I take it myself, and my cat diagnosed with "FLUTD" takes it. Cosequin for cats is an anti-inflammatory and so helps keep the inflammation down, making her more comfortable.
There are many threads about weight loss and cats, some with very successful outcomes. People have had lots of support and success by following the advice given in these threads. But the methods all take effort on the human's part.
My standard suggestions are:
Get a baby scale and weight weekly.
A cat should lose no more than 2 ounces a week, which is half a pound a month.
Keep track of all intake. Measure out her food (food scale is the best way), keep a cat journal on what she is eating, how much and when. Write everything down iun that journal. Not just about her diet and weight, but bowel movements, times she pees outside the box, everything.
Once you know how much she is eating each day, reduce that quantity by a small amount. If, after a week or two she hasn't lost any (you are aiming for 2 ounces a week weight loss) reduce the food again.
Feed three or four canned (or raw) meals a day, reducing her portions from each meal so she doesn't really notice the reduction in food. Feed the last meal before you go to bed and no more food until after you get up in the morning.
Of course a cat 7 pounds over weight has no interest in moving. That's not the point. The point is, you get down on the floor with her every single day and play with her any way. As that becomes routine that will be something she looks forward to, and as she begins to lose she will feel better and be more interested in playing.
Along with the D-mannose and cosequin for cats, if you don't want to use medication, I recommend Rescue Remedy. A couple of drops in one of her meals each day, especially if you can narrow what time of day night be causing her the most stress, will help her feel less stressed.
But don't forget that cats are emotional barometers. And the more you stress over her problems, the worse it is for her.
Last edited by catsmom21; 10-31-2015 at 07:09 AM..
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Originally Posted by SweetLittleWing Did the vet call Callie's issue idiopathic cystitis?
Not that I recall.
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We have two cats with this issue. Both are good with poop, but pee WAS another thing entirely..... Trip to vet got that diagnosis.
Callie has no signs of kidney failure.
My cats do not have kidney failure. They marked inappropriately. Each cat's Vet diagnosed them with FIC due to their being no "medical" cause (like an abnormality with their bodies or bloodwork). Idiopathic covers that "unknown cause". The cause however is in their little noggins, they're not as easygoing, and take on a lot of stress. Like your girl, they kept marking on soft areas, carpeting, laundry if left on the floor, his couch was a MESS etc. I put a cover on the bed of the room I gave to momma cat so if she ended up peeing on the bed, the bed and bedding under would be fine. (Luckily for us she hasn't). Kidney failure was the backstory of another cat from 10 years prior my guy blamed the pee smells in his house on when I moved in- he stopped smelling it he lived like that for so long. He shampooed the carpeting after that cat had passed away, but it wasn't a quality clean- so I guess his nose became immune to that awful smell. it was ME who was finding it everywhere else as well, and discovered his little runty kitty had an ongoing issue that needed to be addressed. If it was soft and within her access she was peeing on it. Neither cat is medicated with anything (anti anxiety), I admit fully that it was very frustrating trying to get a solution. I'm of a nervous disposition as a person, figuring out their triggers and finding solutions wasn't too bad for me, communicating that to my spouse effectively and explaining why I was changing the house up or why we were spending money on better perches or beds for them was the hardest part.
So, runty kitty was a package deal with my spouse. Momma cat I took on from my mother FULLY knowing she was upset and peeing all over. aka huge problem. Cat loved her, but was fully targeted by their other cat after changes in the household. My father obviously was upset so he had a permanent scowl around her and not hearing she does look at faces and she knew, wouldn't allow him to pet her. She also got worse during my brothers visits *he's disabled and rambunctious* She was fine until recently, as I explained in my prior reply.
Some people who knew mom's situation were hard on her for giving up her kitty. I'm of the mind though that if a kitty is upset with things that either cannot or will not change within their household rehoming them properly is the kindest option for that cat. There are plenty of "suckers" who will take on a special needs cat, fully knowing the present issues. Less then 500 people here now and the lady next door has a household of kitties (3) all special needs in their own ways and all taken knowing most people wouldn't take them on. expensive medical needs, or disabled kitties. one had it's face smacked in by a toddler and abandoned, one was injured abandoned and a tripod now I forget the issue with the last one. If this is something you are considering, don't feel badly about it. Callie's brand of special needs may not be resolved in your household, but someone else may end up with their perfect companion. If I'm way off base I apologize, I see a lot of frustration in your posts.
I realize it's very difficult to pinpoint details in a multi-cat household. As well, cats don't preannounce their activities to let us know "hey, I'm going to go pee now", so we can't follow them to see what they're doing. Some can be so secretive that we never see them in a litterbox, but we know they've gone in it.
So, I understand.
However, when there is an issue going on we sometimes cannot march through our life, going along in our merry way, as usual. We have to disrupt our routines in order to pay attention to details to figure out why the issue is occurring. This comes with the territory of choosing to be a pet owner.
We have decided to leave her in the RV when get back home. We want to make sure she's the only one peeing outside the box. I will also call the vet again and see what he says. I know this is very frustrating for him also. The RV is like a small apt. She will have all the comforts of our house, only on a smaller scale. We can also totally control her eating if she's alone but not locked in a bathroom or closet.
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I know I asked a lot of questions. I'm trying to get a handle on the bigger picture and why Callie is doing what's she doing. Presuming you might not have the answers, and that's understandable, I thought your response would be that you'd begin to take notice. IT IS POSSIBLE to observe her behaviors - of course not all the time, but often if you keep her in the corner of your eye. It's important to note quantity of urine and if she purposely seeks out the inappropriate places or if she feels a need to pee and picks the closest place. There is a significant difference between large puddles many times a day or tiny puddles. There's also a big difference between the behaviors of seeking inappropriate places or just peeing wherever she might be at the moment. And it's crucial to know if the other cats are following her and masking her scent ... which makes me wonder if Callie is the only culprit and is being blamed as the sole perpetrator when the others are being just as naughty.
This is why she will stay in the RV when we get home. The way my house is laid out it is impossible to know where the cats are at all times and what they are doing. I would literally have to follow her from room to room, to porch to outdoor catio to back bathroom, back bedroom etc etc.... impossible.
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Let's take the most recent incident on the RV's cab carpet. You know for a fact it was Callie because you saw her do it? Or did you find a puddle and presume? If you saw her do it, what was your response? Our human behaviors have great effects on cat behaviors.
We assumed it was her. Only once was she caught in the act, taken to the vet, put on meds... and nothing changed.
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And I'll switch gears based on this last sentence. Do you think it's possible that your lifestyle may not be a good fit for Callie? Perhaps she's just not well-suited for a mobile, active, busy lifestyle and never has been? I get the drift that you're definitely not a couch-potato - maybe Callie is, and busy-ness around her is a constant stressor?
We knew this right from the start. She is not for this lifestyle but just try and find a home for an adult cat. She needs a quiet home with older people who are at home, not travelers, and don't have a lot of company. If this is stress caused, she will remain in the condition she's in. She has to be heavily sedated just to rid in the RV safely.
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Please please do not be offended or insulted by questions and comments from your friends here on city-data. We all feel your frustration about Callie and commiserate with you. But at least for me there's also a side of frustration I feel, and you may not intend it to come out this way, that you're not taking any of it to heart and aren't trying along with us to find the solution. While it's appreciative that you answer our questions, the tone I perceive, and I could be wrong, is one of unwillingness to observe details and interrupt your lifestyle in order to help Callie. What I heard was "One of our two greatest fears, this one for the RV, has just been realized..." and "She's ruining this weekend for us....", both negatives. What I didn't hear was "we're RVing this weekend and we'll watch Callie like a hawk and divert her so that she won't pee on the cab carpet", a positive approach.
I understand but when we're off for a weekend or week in our RV we don't sit inside, we are outdoors most of the time - or why bother? If we're going to sit inside and watch her, what would be the point of the expense of even going camping? And since you don't know the layout of our house, I can understand why you may not understand why we can't watch her the majority of the time. When I check on her she's either sleeping on the porch, in one of the bedrooms, in the bathroom carpet, on my bed, outside in the catio, on one of the 6 cat trees, etc. How on earth can I just follow her and wait for her to get up and move from one spot to another to catch her looking for a place to pee or in the act? I don't live in a place with RR rooms where it's possible to keep her under surveillance all the time.
.....Some people who knew mom's situation were hard on her for giving up her kitty. I'm of the mind though that if a kitty is upset with things that either cannot or will not change within their household rehoming them properly is the kindest option for that cat. There are plenty of "suckers" who will take on a special needs cat, fully knowing the present issues. Less then 500 people here now and the lady next door has a household of kitties (3) all special needs in their own ways and all taken knowing most people wouldn't take them on. expensive medical needs, or disabled kitties. one had it's face smacked in by a toddler and abandoned, one was injured abandoned and a tripod now I forget the issue with the last one. If this is something you are considering, don't feel badly about it. Callie's brand of special needs may not be resolved in your household, but someone else may end up with their perfect companion. If I'm way off base I apologize, I see a lot of frustration in your posts.
Yes, lots of frustration and many reasons. Callie is a excellent pet but doesn't fit in with our lifestyle. She needs a different kind of home than we can provide. Where I live it's almost impossible to find a home for a adult cat, even one as sweet as she is - and then add the inappropriate urinating problem.
We're going to make sure she's the only one doing it when we get back home, and she will be forced to eat alone - her intake monitored as she'll be left in the RV.
Now you are back, with the same problems, apparently having tried none of the suggestions given you by the vet or by anyone in this forum. And still rejecting all suggestions. So yeah, I might sound a little frustrated.
She was on the meds from the vet (for anxiety) and they did nothing but make her sleep and gain more weight. Don't ASSume you know what I did for her.
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There is no "test" for FIC. The way to treat it is by reducing stress as much as possible, perhaps giving anxiety meds like amitriptyline (but those can cause weight gain and Callie needs to lose 7 pounds already, that should take about 14 months) and/or using supplements known to help with inflammation in the urinary tract.
She was on Amitryptyline from the vet. All it does is make her sleep and gain more weight. I asked you more than once for info on research concerning the supplements. So far you have not produced them. Testimonials are of no use.
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Incidentally the sedative effect of these meds does wear off after a few weeks. But I wouldn't use them until she's lost most of the weight, anyway. I'd go with the supplements I recommended earlier and in this thread.
Can you provide more than testimonials for those products since I never once had a supplement for for anything.
Quote:
D-mannose acts as an adhesive, attaching to anything that does not belong in the bladder and moving it out. When there is discomfort in the UT, the D-mannose works almost instantly to remove that discomfort. I know because I take it myself, and my cat diagnosed with "FLUTD" takes it. Cosequin for cats is an anti-inflammatory and so helps keep the inflammation down, making her more comfortable.
There are many threads about weight loss and cats, some with very successful outcomes. People have had lots of support and success by following the advice given in these threads. But the methods all take effort on the human's part.
She'll be living in the RV alone from now on. If she wont eat without the other cats, like in the house... then .... we'll see.
Quote:
My standard suggestions are:
Get a baby scale and weight weekly.
A cat should lose no more than 2 ounces a week, which is half a pound a month.
Keep track of all intake. Measure out her food (food scale is the best way), keep a cat journal on what she is eating, how much and when. Write everything down iun that journal. Not just about her diet and weight, but bowel movements, times she pees outside the box, everything.
How will I know when she pees outside the box unless I hire a fulltime person to stay with her 24/7? I can't afford that.
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Once you know how much she is eating each day, reduce that quantity by a small amount. If, after a week or two she hasn't lost any (you are aiming for 2 ounces a week weight loss) reduce the food again.
Feed three or four canned (or raw) meals a day, reducing her portions from each meal so she doesn't really notice the reduction in food. Feed the last meal before you go to bed and no more food until after you get up in the morning.
Of course a cat 7 pounds over weight has no interest in moving. That's not the point. The point is, you get down on the floor with her every single day and play with her any way. As that becomes routine that will be something she looks forward to, and as she begins to lose she will feel better and be more interested in playing.
Please explain how to FORCE a cat to play when it has zero interest in playing. Maybe you can explain how YOU do it. I have a carton of toys and she has no interest in any of them.
Quote:
Along with the D-mannose and cosequin for cats, if you don't want to use medication, I recommend Rescue Remedy. A couple of drops in one of her meals each day, especially if you can narrow what time of day night be causing her the most stress, will help her feel less stressed.
Please provide the site explaining what research was done on these supplements and the success rate. Is there a money back guarantee? Testimonials are of no use since professionals are paid to write them. I've been through the "testimonials" in the past.
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But don't forget that cats are emotional barometers. And the more you stress over her problems, the worse it is for her.
As long as we're a multi-cat household and travel, camp and snow-bird, this problem will continue. I can't see any way to reduce her stress. She doesn't fit in our household.
She'll be living in the RV alone from now on. If she wont eat without the other cats, like in the house... then .... we'll see.
That's cruelty. Solitary confinement? You might as well just take her to the pound.
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Please explain how to FORCE a cat to play when it has zero interest in playing. Maybe you can explain how YOU do it. I have a carton of toys and she has no interest in any of them.
She's 7 pounds overweight. That's almost twice what she should weigh. Of course she has no interest in moving.
You sit down on the floor with her and wiggle a stick, and dangle a rope, and drag something under a newspaper or rug, drag it slow, drag it fast, see which she likes better, you crumple paper and roll it to her, until she bats at it. Then you do it again. It doesn't matter if she shows no interest. You do it every evening, at the same time, and you keep doing it. You keep doing it. Eventually she will begin to show interest. Some cats take work. That's the way life with pets is.
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As long as we're a multi-cat household and travel, camp and snow-bird, this problem will continue. I can't see any way to reduce her stress. She doesn't fit in our household.[
Do you even hear yourself? You've had this cat her whole life.
Last edited by catsmom21; 10-31-2015 at 07:37 PM..
Having given this more thought, I guess you're right. Callie would do better in a home that can provide her what she needs. I hope you can find that for her very soon.
It is very hard to find a home for an adult cat. Experienced that first hand.
Thanks to organizations like Imagine Home you wouldn't be limited to finding Callie a new home solely in your location. Perhaps the organization could also help you find the best way to rehome her. There are adoptive families out there who would step up if the only other resort was PTS.
I understand but when we're off for a weekend or week in our RV we don't sit inside, we are outdoors most of the time - or why bother? If we're going to sit inside and watch her, what would be the point of the expense of even going camping? And since you don't know the layout of our house, I can understand why you may not understand why we can't watch her the majority of the time. When I check on her she's either sleeping on the porch, in one of the bedrooms, in the bathroom carpet, on my bed, outside in the catio, on one of the 6 cat trees, etc. How on earth can I just follow her and wait for her to get up and move from one spot to another to catch her looking for a place to pee or in the act? I don't live in a place with RR rooms where it's possible to keep her under surveillance all the time.
True, it makes no sense to go camping and to stay inside and do nothing. What if you left Callie at home and hired a petsitter for her?
No, of course I don't know the layout of your house ... nor do you know mine. I have a large spread-out house, two floors with a screened patio, and if I had a pedometer I'm sure it would show I walk miles a day to check on my old guy Silver who's rarely in the same place twice. If I'm home I briefly stop what I'm doing to go check on him at least every half hour. Yeah, it's a royal pain, but he needs to be monitored for food intake and output. If I'm going out, I check on him and his litterboxes (he uses 2 specific ones) before I leave and then immediately when I get back. None of this fits my lifestyle at all, but it's what I have to do.
Another cat, Pharaoh, who recently went to Rainbow Bridge, had to be watched because he didn't like the outside cats who roamed too close to our house. In his displeasure he'd mark in a corner in the family room. So, I had to remain cognizant and vigilant about where he was and if the outside cat was near. Periodically throughout the day I had to check that corner, check litterboxes, check where Pharaoh was and his mood.
With these walk-arounds that include checking litterboxes, I am aware of which cat uses which box (or boxes) and I can recognize the deposits of each. It's really not impossible to do.
Truthfully, none of any of this is any different than parenthood when you're involved in some household task, like cooking or vacuuming, and yet knowing full-well where a child is and what he is doing.
That's cruelty. Solitary confinement? You might as well just take her to the pound.
Would keeping her in the bathroom or a cage in the house be any better? Or do you suggest I just let her urinate all over my house?
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She's 7 pounds overweight. That's almost twice what she should weigh. Of course she has no interest in moving.
That's obvious. When she was 6 to 8 months old she stopped playing and the weight gain started.
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You sit down on the floor with her and wiggle a stick, and dangle a rope, and drag something under a newspaper or rug, drag it slow, drag it fast, see which she likes better, you crumple paper and roll it to her, until she bats at it. Then you do it again. It doesn't matter if she shows no interest. You do it every evening, at the same time, and you keep doing it. You keep doing it. Eventually she will begin to show interest. Some cats take work. That's the way life with pets is.
Do you even hear yourself? You've had this cat her whole life.
Been there and done that. She watches me a few minutes and walks off totally disinterested. The other adult cats show more interest, and that's not much either, and they also walk off.
Do you hear yourself? It's MY HOME and MY RV, not yours, the urine is making a foul smelling place.
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Her urine was clear but since she peed on a washcloth that fell from the laundry basket the other day, he wanted to be 100% sure. All the throw rugs are still put away. The Lab will check it and I should have the results by Wednesday or Thursday. If no sign of infection, she has to go on some kind of anti-anxiety meds. She does urinate in the litter box but seems she will also urinate on anything "cloth" laying on the floor. 
(Luckily for us she hasn't). Kidney failure was the backstory of another cat from 10 years prior my guy blamed the pee smells in his house on when I moved in- he stopped smelling it he lived like that for so long. He shampooed the carpeting after that cat had passed away, but it wasn't a quality clean- so I guess his nose became immune to that awful smell. it was ME who was finding it everywhere else as well, and discovered his little runty kitty had an ongoing issue that needed to be addressed. If it was soft and within her access she was peeing on it. Neither cat is medicated with anything (anti anxiety), I admit fully that it was very frustrating trying to get a solution. I'm of a nervous disposition as a person, figuring out their triggers and finding solutions wasn't too bad for me, communicating that to my spouse effectively and explaining why I was changing the house up or why we were spending money on better perches or beds for them was the hardest part.
