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Long ago, I used to do cat rescue with someone else at an apartment complex where I lived. There was one female cat (calico) who kept having litters. Her kittens were gorgeous, and we managed to fid homes for them. But we finally managed to trap the momma, who we called "gypsy queen." She was spayed, released and that was the end of her kittens. Sometimes other pregnant mommas would show up, and we couldn't get them spayed in time, they would have their kittens inside one of our apartments. At one time, I had three of them, and wanted to keep all the babies, they were just so cute! We worked with a rescue organization, and the vets donated the spays.
At the feral cat clinic in Roanoke, which handled over 2,000 cats we almost always had at least one pregnant cat and if she was very far along doc would hang on to her for an extra day to keep an eye on her. Never had a bad outcome but then again Dr. F had been at the clinic for years and had done about 20,000 spays and neuters of cats and dogs (and some rabbits).
Also had 2 virtually feral dogs that were both pregnant and she fixed them just days before they would have each delivered 9 pups. Had we not caught them and they were living in the woods most of the pups probably would not have survived as winter was on it's way. Doc thought that the likelihood of us being able to ever adopt the dogs was was not very high, that they would always be too feral. Happy to say that she was wrong about that and they both went to a Petsmart adoption event earlier this month for the first time and did great. Even going up to strangers and looking for attention. We've had them for about 15 or 16 months now.
I agree with all of you, it's best to end the suffering now then watch it all happen later. Also, "no kill" shelters doesn't mean that they never have to euthanize any of the animals. It just means they try and hold the animals as long as they can for adoption and hope they don't become over crowded and if they do, then they will euthanize some of the animals to make room for new animals coming into the shelter. Some of these shelters even have "foster-homes" for the animals to go to if they become over crowded. People take in the animals and foster them till the shelter can take them back. Something for you all to look into if you would like to help out these animals in need and want to save a life.
This may be upsetting to sensitive people, but I want to point out that if you are having a pregnant female spayed, it is very important to ask what will happen to the fetuses. They need to be euthanized separately, either by injection to each fetus or by flushing the uterus with euthanasia solution. They should not be left to die by themselves...they will die slowly and painfully. If the vet says they die from the anesthesia, they are not being honest,especially with a late-term spay.
personally i cant handle VERY late term spay...ive seen some less than positive results (and ive also seen what ParallelJJCat is talking about and its not a pretty sight)
but i do agree in many cases its a better risk than not spaying even late term.
personally i cant handle VERY late term spay...ive seen some less than positive results (and ive also seen what ParallelJJCat is talking about and its not a pretty sight)
but i do agree in many cases its a better risk than not spaying even late term.
It is, unfortunately, a very unpleasant procedure to participate in. Our vet hospital had an 'ethic meetings' where we discussed various troublesome procedures like non-medical euthanasia and had discussions if we could continue to do them. Spaying pregnant females was one of the discussions. We came to the conclusion that we would continue doing it if requested for the reasons others have cited. Still, just the fact that it came up for discussion shows how difficult it is.
(We voted no on non-medical euthanasia, ear cropping and tail docking, and declaws done without a laser. Spaying while pregnant I think was the only thing on the list that we decided to continue)
This may be upsetting to sensitive people, but I want to point out that if you are having a pregnant female spayed, it is very important to ask what will happen to the fetuses. They need to be euthanized separately, either by injection to each fetus or by flushing the uterus with euthanasia solution. They should not be left to die by themselves...they will die slowly and painfully. If the vet says they die from the anesthesia, they are not being honest,especially with a late-term spay.
To kill them by injection is horrible. They almost never get the heart and baby squirms and screams. Some inject into the abdomen which is also painful for the baby. It got to the point where I would have to leave the room when this was being done.
They will suffocate once the horn of the uterus is tied off and no more of the mother's blood gets by them. Either way, it's a miserable death for them unless the anesthesia has rendered them unconscious also. I don't believe that happens all the time - going by my own experience at an Animal Hospital where I worked.
For me, I could never spay a mommy cat in the late stages of the kitten's deveopment. I know the arguments on both sides and I understand, but I would allow her to deliver, take her to the vets as soon as the kittens are weined (about 4 weeks) and then have it done. And I would pray the little kids can find homes.
Parallel,
It is interesting about the meeting you had with the hospital. I assume you are a tech, right? Anyway I agree with most of what you are saying, but I am a little surprised at the tail docking decision. We have discused this in length with our vet (more than one I will add) and we have 2 family members that are vet techs. They all agree, their is almost no pain from docking tails. Ear chopping is another story and as for de-clawing, wow, I don't think I could have a cat de-clawed no matter what, but that is just me.
For me, I could never spay a mommy cat in the late stages of the kitten's deveopment. I know the arguments on both sides and I understand, but I would allow her to deliver, take her to the vets as soon as the kittens are weined (about 4 weeks) and then have it done. And I would pray the little kids can find homes.
Parallel,
It is interesting about the meeting you had with the hospital. I assume you are a tech, right? Anyway I agree with most of what you are saying, but I am a little surprised at the tail docking decision. We have discused this in length with our vet (more than one I will add) and we have 2 family members that are vet techs. They all agree, their is almost no pain from docking tails. Ear chopping is another story and as for de-clawing, wow, I don't think I could have a cat de-clawed no matter what, but that is just me.
Nita
There is pain, though it may be slight and passing. But the puppies do definitely react. It also has an effect on communication between dogs, much as if a person had lost the ability to smile or frown. Moreover it is simply unnecessary and as such we decided ethically we would not continue the practice.
Declawing is something I would personally love to see banned completely. However, we are not yet at a point where that is possible. Instead we tried to make it as easy on the animal as we could. We only did the front claws, used a laser, and did pain control including a pain patch and injections. These 'extras' meant the cost for the procedure was quite a bit higher than any other hospital in our area. Honestly, it was something I simply could not participate in despite all of that, which is why I was never a routine surgical tech. When I left that hospital I worked for a single day at a different hospital where they did declawing the 'traditional' way by cutting through the bone with a nail clipper. I participated in that surgery and the sound of the bone crunching still haunts me. I knew that if I continued to work there I would very quickly come to hate myself. I quit the next day and never regretted it. Still, it was hypocritcal of me to work somewhere that did perform it, even with the laser and even if I didn't directly assist and I recognize this. Unfortunately you really can't find a hospital that just flat out refuses anywhere in this area, so it was the slightly better of two evils.
I will say that there is a visible difference between cats declawed with a laser and with the traditional methods. They recover more quickly, have less bleeding and infection, and are often comfortably playing and walking that same night. I still think it's a terrible, terrible thing to do to an animal.
On topic, when we did perform pregnant spays we would flush the uterus with euthanasia solution. My personal feelings are that there is no difference between aborting late term kittens and euthanizing delivered kittens. The same amount of animals end up dead either way.
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I don't believe that happens all the time - going by my own experience at an Animal Hospital where I worked.
