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Everything except the part that is in bold is in your head. Everything else is your opinion and is not backed up by the law or anyone's experience in this state.
I'm clueless as to what this even means. But I will clarify.
The lawyer did not answer these questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance2jump
Looking to find out if HOAs have the power to enforce their own rules (limiting times for street parking) on a public owned road? The road is NOT marked for limited parking hours at all, is maintained by the city and is not owned or marked a "private" for HOA purposes. There are no signs that indicate parking restrictions at all, and the road is wide enough that vehicles can pass with parked cars.
Does the city allow HOAs to have this power? Where would be a starting place for someone to look into for city rules?
The lawyer answered a question on whether a home owner is bound to follow his HOA agreement. This was already addressed by me in my first post in this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frewroad
...Ultimately the only enforcement authority the HOA has, resides in the court and then only via foreclosure of unpaid fees and fines. This is established in the HOA statutes in this state.
IMO, while messy, a HOA that tried to foreclose on a home because a party legally parked his car on a city street and then refused to pay HOA fines for it, is going to get into very deep water very fast.
Of course the HOA can't sue anyone who isn't on the deed to the house. You have reminded me why I don't read the Observer any more.
I'm clueless as to what this even means. But I will clarify.
The lawyer did not answer these questionsThe lawyer answered a question on whether a home owner is bound to follow his HOA agreement. This was already addressed by me in my first post in this topic.Of course the HOA can't sue anyone who isn't on the deed to the house. You have reminded me why I don't read the Observer any more.
I've used Mr. Hunter to beat back out of control HOA boards and it had nothing to do with reading the Observer. We go way back.
The lawyer clearly answered what the OP wanted to know except for one question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chance2jump
Looking to find out if HOAs have the power to enforce their own rules (limiting times for street parking) on a public owned road? The road is NOT marked for limited parking hours at all, is maintained by the city and is not owned or marked a "private" for HOA purposes. There are no signs that indicate parking restrictions at all, and the road is wide enough that vehicles can pass with parked cars.
Does the city allow HOAs to have this power? Where would be a starting place for someone to look into for city rules?
The first question was answered:
"My answer to this question, therefore, has historically been that anyone who buys a home in a planned community has agreed to be bound by the CCRs, and if a restriction in the CCRs prohibits parking on the street, then the homeowners must abide by this restriction."
Why did you put in about non-homeowners when the OP didn't mention it, I didn't mention it and Mr. Hunter mention it?
The question that was not answered involved the city. The city has nothing to do with this. The city does not grant an HOA any power.
We read Mr. Hunters article stating that an HOA does not have authority to restrict parking on a public street unless the CC&Rs give them that power. Our community CC&Rs do not restrict on-street parking. We live in a community where 24 townhomes border a street without on-street parking. The street entering the community was the only parking available for visitors if our driveway was occupied. The street entering the community was private but now turned over to the city. Our city has a traffic calming policy that allows an HOA to ask for a traffic calming policy such as "no parking" and the cities interpretation is that they are obligated to give the HOA their request. The HOA did not even ask the residents opinion, they just obtained permission from the city to paint lines down the middle of the street which makes the street 2 lanes and any parking then is prohibited for blocking a lane and is subject to ticketing by the city police. We have protested this parking restriction with the City Board of Commissioners asking them to reverse this traffic calming restriction. The Board of Commissioners have the authority to reverse it because they have authority over the City MGRs office that granted the HOA permission. The Board of Commissioners did not defend our right to park on a city street by reversing this restriction because this HOA BOD told them they were sending out a list of parking options for residents to vote on and the Board said they want the community to "work this out" In the mean time, we are without any on street parking. Bottom line is the City gave the HOA permission to take away parking on a city street! Is there legal recourse or solution to this HOA Power abuse?
We read Mr. Hunters article stating that an HOA does not have authority to restrict parking on a public street unless the CC&Rs give them that power. Our community CC&Rs do not restrict on-street parking. We live in a community where 24 townhomes border a street without on-street parking. The street entering the community was the only parking available for visitors if our driveway was occupied. The street entering the community was private but now turned over to the city. Our city has a traffic calming policy that allows an HOA to ask for a traffic calming policy such as "no parking" and the cities interpretation is that they are obligated to give the HOA their request. The HOA did not even ask the residents opinion, they just obtained permission from the city to paint lines down the middle of the street which makes the street 2 lanes and any parking then is prohibited for blocking a lane and is subject to ticketing by the city police. We have protested this parking restriction with the City Board of Commissioners asking them to reverse this traffic calming restriction. The Board of Commissioners have the authority to reverse it because they have authority over the City MGRs office that granted the HOA permission. The Board of Commissioners did not defend our right to park on a city street by reversing this restriction because this HOA BOD told them they were sending out a list of parking options for residents to vote on and the Board said they want the community to "work this out" In the mean time, we are without any on street parking. Bottom line is the City gave the HOA permission to take away parking on a city street! Is there legal recourse or solution to this HOA Power abuse?
Attend your HOA meetings and answer surveys when you get them. Get involved.
there was no survey taken by the HOA BOD to evaluate the wishes of the community before they removed the public street parking. In fact, we opposed this parking restriction at an HOA meeting 10/13. The HOA BOD voted their 5 person selfish opinion that they did not like the looks of the parking not caring about the residents in the front of the community that NEED the parking for visitors. If on-street parking were restricted on other streets within our community, the outcry would be the same. All of the on-street parking is needed.
You can be sure we will be involved especially since we have an HOA BOD that votes the will of the 5 BOD instead of checking the will of the community. With all of the bad press the HOA's are getting with this type of abusive control, we would appreciate the City using their authority to defend the resident's right to public st. parking.
We read Mr. Hunters article stating that an HOA does not have authority to restrict parking on a public street unless the CC&Rs give them that power. Our community CC&Rs do not restrict on-street parking. We live in a community where 24 townhomes border a street without on-street parking. The street entering the community was the only parking available for visitors if our driveway was occupied. The street entering the community was private but now turned over to the city. Our city has a traffic calming policy that allows an HOA to ask for a traffic calming policy such as "no parking" and the cities interpretation is that they are obligated to give the HOA their request. The HOA did not even ask the residents opinion, they just obtained permission from the city to paint lines down the middle of the street which makes the street 2 lanes and any parking then is prohibited for blocking a lane and is subject to ticketing by the city police. We have protested this parking restriction with the City Board of Commissioners asking them to reverse this traffic calming restriction. The Board of Commissioners have the authority to reverse it because they have authority over the City MGRs office that granted the HOA permission. The Board of Commissioners did not defend our right to park on a city street by reversing this restriction because this HOA BOD told them they were sending out a list of parking options for residents to vote on and the Board said they want the community to "work this out" In the mean time, we are without any on street parking. Bottom line is the City gave the HOA permission to take away parking on a city street! Is there legal recourse or solution to this HOA Power abuse?
This is something I've mentioned a few times. People have trouble getting their minds around it. I did. But often the city is just as glad to have less to worry about and leave hoas alone. HOAs can mean less parkland maintenance, less pool upkeep, fewer public rec centers since tennis, etc is provided at HOAs, some streets are privately maintained, plowed etc, some HOAs provide security.
I know some judges who will not decide on HOA cases. They claim they don't want to get in the middle of things. It's really just upline washing their hands of something that supposedly makes life a little easier for the cities.
Your roads....you had a tough winter I think. Who plowed or salted them? HOA or city.
There is usually mutual hand washing in things like this. It may just be your HOA is getting something as simple as what they want...not money or anything but just what they think looks good.
Curious what the BOD are doing for their extra parking?
Is there a common lot where you can just put your cars because you haven't been told not to yet?
One thing I have discovered with this newer awareness of being hands off on HOAs is just don't vote for the politicians who agree with this.
I have found the media very helpful in some cases. You might have them over in connection with a lot of lovely young people graduating and no where to park the grandparents' and aunts' and uncles' vehicles.
I know of one instance where the HOA wasn't doing anything about on-street parking and the school busses weren't able to make it down the street. If the school bus can't make it, then a fire truck or ambulance can't either.
Oh this is not a problem in my neighborhood, in fact we have those miracle 90 mph UPS trucks fly down the streets - while they get into the thoroughfares and do 20 mph in rush hour - but our HOA has all of a sudden decided they dont want street parking anyway.
Thanks.
Srinath.
HOA Jurisdiction Over Publically deeded streets within the HOA-I dont think so
I see a number of common issues on this thread.
I am having an ongoing dispute with my HOA regarding the parking of a vehicle in the streets deeded to the County by a plated deed of dedication. The HOA has begun fining me $50/day due the this infraction under the authority of their "guidelines". The guidelines are allegedly in line with the Articles, By laws and Declarations (ABDs) which were developed when the community was gated. But in 1979, the HOA began the process of deeding over the streets because they did not want to pay for upkeep. These streets and the right of ways are now maintained by the Virginia Department of Transportation (VDOT). I claim their guidelines are not supported by the ABDs.
I will not pay tribute to the ruling Board who appear ignorant of the ABDs they should be upholding. I refuse to pay said fees because it is no longer HOA property, neither a lot or common ground. In fact, I believe this is clearly defined in the ABD's. To wit: The ABDs state: (article 6.1.o, except in connection with construction activities, trucks, trailers, campers, recreational vehicles, busses, boats and other large vehicles may not be parked on the Property..... The Property is defined in the same document "Property means at any given time the real estate then subject to the Declarations (including lots and common areas)... Further in section prior this it states "private streets and roadways" mean all streets, roadways, sidewalks, curbs, gutters and parking areas which are part of the common area, but NOT including streets and roadways dedicated to the public use by a plat or deed of dedication. Further, section 1.1.8 states" "Common Area" means at any given time all of the Property, other than Lots, then owned or leased by the Association or other wise available to the Association for the benefit, use and enjoyment or the owners, provided however, {"provided however" is underlined in the ABDs} that real estate within the Property is not common ground soley because it is burdened by an easement for utilities, and/or maintenance or dedicated as a public street or roadway. So there you have it, straight from the Contract that I signed with the HOA. Can it be any clearer? They don't have Jurisdiction. They can not fine me nor try to take possession of my home through a lien. I believe the Montclair Property Owners Association is yet another example of an HOA that is out of control.
But wait a minute! They claim that the Streets deed was written with the Covenants being enforced in that deeded property. To wit the deed is SUBJECT TO AND TOGETHER WITH those certain rights, privileges, covenants restrictions, easements and conditions contained in the above described deeds and plat...
OK, but note that the Covenants state the Public streets are NOT part of the property or Real-estate to which the vehicle restrictions apply. So, the deed essentially states that it is not subject to any restriction that says the restriction applies to the Property, Lot, or Common area. QED.
The HOA can not impose its vehicle restrictions on the publically deeded streets and roadway right of ways and hence can not impose any fines or impose a Lien on my home. In fact all they can do is harass me which they have been doing for some months now. I have asked the Board (I guess they call it a board because it is like talking to a piece of wood) repeatedly to be show any bases beyond what I have found in the Covenants and deed. But when I ask the Board about this, they invoke "Attorney Client privilege". I claim another misuse of a term to avoid resolving this short of court.
So I ask the readers, What am I missing? Is the Montclair Va Property Owners Association just another self serving set of bullies? Am I just another whiney pinheaded homeowner? Any cut throat attorneys want to take this on a contingency basis? HELP Please!!
Not an attorney. But we've had one of those boards that was a nesting place for extreme egomaniacs.
There's a lot to read here. I'm going to re-read it. Wondering have you contacted the city or VDOT about this? If you do so by email and get a response by email that they own the road, maintain it and you can park on it (if there is the space), then you can bring this to the board.
It can help if you have a group behind you.
Using the media can also help. Especially on a slow week in the middle of summer vacation time.
There is also a life span for at least some HOAs which would be mentioned in...I think it's your declaration. I know some are 40 years. Honestly don't know what happens after 40 years. Could be interesting to find out. That time would be coming up soon for you.
HOA Jurisdiction Over Publically deeded streets within the HOA-I dont think so
VDOT was contacted, and the clerk that answered the phone believed that the HOA could not impose itself because it was a public (not common area) street. But the attorneys only respond to other public officials, not the people who pay for them, like ME.
I called the county attorneys office. They only respond to the county board of supervisors. So I may need to contact her, but I suspect this is a numbers game, ME vs a Board.
In this long note notice that the Covenants themselves talk about an restriction on the Property (note capitalized) and then define the Property as lots and Common areas. Then further state that the common areas include Private streets, but NOT streets that are deeded by a deed of dedication. I have the deed and it is clearly a deed of dedication which sold the street property for the grand sum of $10.
As I have been reading case law in various states, it appears that what is stated in the contract is quite sacred, unless the contract goes against public law. I suspect your first statement about the nature of some of the Board member is correct. Unfortunately, if they get into a law suit, they have directors insurance, so the egomaniacs don't give a damn.
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city gives HOA parking restriction on city street
