Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,462,489 times
Reputation: 12187
Advertisements
Those of you who have driven a few GM products... how do you feel the quality of today's vehicle compare to before the company was restructured in 2010? Historically GM has been hit or miss with reliability compared to industry standards Toyota and Honda but still had some good cars, too. The reputation used to be the trucks were put together better than small cars.
As you can tell by my chosen screen name, I've been burned by GM. I use to be a die hard GM fan. First car a 1978 Chevy Camaro was a POS but it was an 8 year old car that had been in a wreck before I bought it. Second car was a 1984 Buick Skyhawk 2 door coupe with 4 speed manual and 2.0L OHV engine. Only had it two years with minor issues before selling it because I joined the Navy and where I was stationed had good public transportation. Returned from Italy in 1996 and bought a 1994 Chevy Cavalier RS sedan 2.2L OHV 120 HP engine with 3 speed auto. Two problems I had with that car was it needed a new alternator in 1998 and later needed a transmission lock up solenoid. The solenoid would get hot and shut down the car. This didn't bother me much because it was a cheap fix from an honest transmission specialist. Had this car up until 2002 when a guy in a Ford F-250 ran a yield sign and hit my car. Still loyal to GM, I bought a 2003 Chevy Malibu. Was great until the warranty expired. The problems I experienced were not only expensive, they were problems known by GM for nearly a decade and never fixed nor corrected on the assembly line. These include leaking intake gasket, PassLock anti-theft system stop recognizing my keys, and HVAC control module not working properly even after replacing several times at the dealership.
My sister bought a new 2016 Buick Regal and she loves it. Time will tell on the reliability. It being a Buick it'll probably be better reliability than Chevy even though both are GM vehicles. I'd love to go back to Chevy, but I still don't trust GM because though it was restructured, all the old administrators are still there doing business as usual. They're still fighting tooth and nail to avoid paying out on the ignition issues.
I've had problems with getting GM cars and trucks past 50k without real issues.....best was 90k out of my '06 Silverado, which at that time in a 3 month period needed Front Diff rebuilt, Transfer Case rebuilt, then the Right Front Wheel Bearing went taking out new Rotors and Axle Seal, after the that, the Wife said "go pick out a new truck"....the truck I got lasted 16k before the Engine started to knock......replaced #8 Piston, at 28k, Knock came back and dumped that truck.....been Leasing, never out of Warranty. Her '08 Saturn was a great car, at 48k 3 Door Lock Actuators went......52k, all the Seals started leaking Oil......Door Locks were $750 (fixed), Oil Leaks $1,200 +, thats when we decided to go to Nissan (2014) instead of dumping more $$ into it.....Wife is also in a Lease.
I think refinement is likely better than it was a decade ago (quietness, better interiors, etc), however I have my doubts that powertrain longevity has improved. Even with the full size trucks and SUVs, if you look at Consumer Reports surveys and CarComplaints they still have lots of problems with the transmissions and drivetrains.
But to be fair, I don't think Ford and Chrysler/Dodge are any better.
Those of you who have driven a few GM products... how do you feel the quality of today's vehicle compare to before the company was restructured in 2010? Historically GM has been hit or miss with reliability compared to industry standards Toyota and Honda but still had some good cars, too. The reputation used to be the trucks were put together better than small cars.
Vehicle 'reputation' changes lag well behind actual quality changes, because people still talk about the car they had that was bad 15 years ago, or the car they reached 200,000 miles that is 18 years old without any trouble. GM quality has been very good for a little while now, and it will take a little while for reputation to catch up.
I've explained on the forum a few times that the JD Power long term reliability study has its flaws and isn't a perfect measure of quality, but it may be the best data out there. Below is the most recent, which is based on today's reliability of a 2014 vehicle (so how dependable are the vehicles when they are 3 years old). Of course, within each brand are better and worse models, and every brand will have some cars that are just "lemons", but this is a good overall idea.
GM brands are highlighted.
Lexus
Porsche
Toyota Buick
Mercedes-Benz
Hyundai
BMW Chevrolet
Honda
Jaguar
Kia
Lincoln
MINI GMC Cadillac
Audi
Volvo
Chrysler
Subaru
Volkswagen
Mazda
Acura
Nissan
Land Rover
Mitsubishi
Ford
Ram
Dodge
Infiniti
Jeep
Fiat
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata
Isn't GM having Daewoo (aka GM Korea)make most of their small engines now? I am leery of all of those small 1.4 turbo engines.
The new Ecotech engines (1.0, 1.4, 1.5) are sold and made all over the world. I know a a bunch of 1.4s are made in Flint, MI. I don't have any idea what the breakdown is between the plants, but GM just spend a few hundred million upgrading the engine plant in Flint, and has 800 people working there, so there is definitely production there for the Cruze and Volt. Also, the Koreans make some pretty good products (see Hyundai and Kia above).
PS. Here is the latest JD Power Initial Quality, which are problems within the first 90 days. This doesn't tell us much about long-term reliability, but I would guess there may be some correlation between attention to initial quality and long term quality.
Kia
Porsche
Hyundai
Toyota
BMW Chevrolet Buick
Lexus
Lincoln
Nissan
Ford GMC
Infiniti
Volkswagen
Audi
Mercedes-Benz Cadillac
Jeep
Ram
Chrysler
Mitsubishi
Dodge
Subaru
Honda
Acura
Scion
Jaguar
MINI
Mazda
Land Rover
Volvo
Fiat
smart
JD Powers "long term" survey is only three years. Even the biggest POS should still be reliable after only three years, that's less than 50k miles for most people. What about when they reach 80k, or 150k? That's when true quality shows.
Vehicle 'reputation' changes lag well behind actual quality changes, because people still talk about the car they had that was bad 15 years ago, or the car they reached 200,000 miles that is 18 years old without any trouble. GM quality has been very good for a little while now, and it will take a little while for reputation to catch up.
I've explained on the forum a few times that the JD Power long term reliability study has its flaws and isn't a perfect measure of quality, but it may be the best data out there. Below is the most recent, which is based on today's reliability of a 2014 vehicle (so how dependable are the vehicles when they are 3 years old). Of course, within each brand are better and worse models, and every brand will have some cars that are just "lemons", but this is a good overall idea.
GM brands are highlighted.
Lexus
Porsche
Toyota Buick
Mercedes-Benz
Hyundai
BMW Chevrolet
Honda
Jaguar
Kia
Lincoln
MINI GMC Cadillac
Audi
Volvo
Chrysler
Subaru
Volkswagen
Mazda
Acura
Nissan
Land Rover
Mitsubishi
Ford
Ram
Dodge
Infiniti
Jeep
Fiat
The new Ecotech engines (1.0, 1.4, 1.5) are sold and made all over the world. I know a a bunch of 1.4s are made in Flint, MI. I don't have any idea what the breakdown is between the plants, but GM just spend a few hundred million upgrading the engine plant in Flint, and has 800 people working there, so there is definitely production there for the Cruze and Volt. Also, the Koreans make some pretty good products (see Hyundai and Kia above).
Um, my generation Chevy Malibu (1997-2003) was rated highly by JD Powers.
Look, I still love Chevy. I love that the Cruze looks and rides so much better than all the other compacts it replaces (Vega, Monza, Cavalier, & Cobalt). I love the new look of the Malibu and how well it rides. The Currently Impala looks great. The Sonic doesn't feel like the Aveo. It feels competitive for it's class, especially in hatchback form. The Spark is a cute city car that looks and feels nothing like a Chevette and is nearly twice as fast accelerating than the Chevette. I can live with defects in vehicles. What I can't live with is the corporate culture of deny fault and blame the customer for the mistakes GM made to their vehicles. I had hoped that the GM I loved and trusted would have realized there was a fault in a part in their vehicle/engine, find a solution, and put that solution in place in all the new vehicles being produced and replace those defective parts at no cost to the customer and then throw out the garbage parts. That's a company that cares about customer loyalty and building quality products.
Well, considering my neighbor has a 2016 Yukon XL Denali (a $70k+ vehicle) with less than 40k miles on the clock (they bought it new)......and a broken HVAC system due to some mystical part that is 6 weeks back-ordered, and they're not letting them even have a loaner vehicle, I'd say not much has changed. Pay over $70,000 to sweat your butt off in 90+ degree heat until July (at the earliest). No thanks....
Sounds like "plastic ball bearings" again for GM.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
