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Old 08-04-2009, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Chicago
15,586 posts, read 27,612,634 times
Reputation: 1761

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^ That is the Chicago way. If generations of people did not pull that off there would be no city to speak of for people that pull in 300k a year to live in. If Chicago is to survive and not turn into Detroit or Gary (no racial meaning intended) people must be able to live and thrive living a humble life. There is nothing European only about what LK said.The European immigrants to Chicago (as well as other places) and their succeeding generations did this. The "European" ways have existed in this country for a couple hundred years or so already. Eventually their ways became American ways.^

Last edited by Avengerfire; 08-04-2009 at 05:23 PM..
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Twilight zone
3,645 posts, read 8,312,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avengerfire View Post
Speaking of football... How about we start a Chicago City-Data Forum Yahoo Fantasy League?

Who is in?
me
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:10 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,384 posts, read 28,515,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajolotl View Post
One option is to do what LK suggests -- be more European about it, downsize seriously and live in a 1200 ft. two bedroom in on of the best neighborhoods in the heart of the city with two kids sharing a room, one small old car, maybe a 5x5 patio and much less junk overall. Maybe you can even get K-8 for free and just pay for high school. I half wish I would have tried it myself. It is very tight, though, and the kids really can't go outside unless you accompany them, u couldn't really have guests, etc. Even in Beverly I just open the door and the kids run around all day. I think life would be a lot harder without that luxury.
Definitely... or better yet no car... But that might not be an issue with kids along with public schools.

For people that don't have a lot of "stuff" nor want a lot of stuff, it makes cities like Chicago very attractive to live in. I mean the whole city is your playground, not just a suburban back yard.

I never thought of that as European living though... maybe Manhattan living, but that is what I am accustomed to. The first "big city" I lived in after university was Paris so... I guess it skewed my perceptions. I know several singles living in 180-250 sq feet in SF/NYC efficiencies and they get along just fine. When I saw what you could get in Chicago for same prices my eyes lit up. Much much more. Weather schmeather. My place was approx 660 sq foot 1br and was more space than I needed.

Commuting to work from the suburbs... no way...
Commuting by train? eh.. its okay
Walking to work in under 15 minutes and having easy access to live work and play...now that is nice and well worth the less space to me. Having Grant park and the lake as my "backyard" in the south loop and my "patio" on a 40 story roof top was pretty damn nice.
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,966 posts, read 6,076,609 times
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I work in Europe three months a year (including Paris) -- many of the people I know get by with much less space and live a more urban and communal lifestyle. Not everyone, but it's much more common than with the people I know in the U.S., who prefer cars, space, and suburbs. I always thought of that as quintessentially European. Maybe it's just me, though.
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Old 08-04-2009, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Chicago: Beverly, Woodlawn
1,966 posts, read 6,076,609 times
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I don't disagree at all, but still think it sounds better on paper than in reality (when kids are involved). You do make some serious sacrifices in addition to getting these things in return. The more money you have the fewer the sacrifices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico View Post
Definitely... or better yet no car... But that might not be an issue with kids along with public schools.

For people that don't have a lot of "stuff" nor want a lot of stuff, it makes cities like Chicago very attractive to live in. I mean the whole city is your playground, not just a suburban back yard.

I never thought of that as European living though... maybe Manhattan living, but that is what I am accustomed to. The first "big city" I lived in after university was Paris so... I guess it skewed my perceptions. I know several singles living in 180-250 sq feet in SF/NYC efficiencies and they get along just fine. When I saw what you could get in Chicago for same prices my eyes lit up. Much much more. Weather schmeather. My place was approx 660 sq foot 1br and was more space than I needed.

Commuting to work from the suburbs... no way...
Commuting by train? eh.. its okay
Walking to work in under 15 minutes and having easy access to live work and play...now that is nice and well worth the less space to me. Having Grant park and the lake as my "backyard" in the south loop and my "patio" on a 40 story roof top was pretty damn nice.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Chicago
6,025 posts, read 15,345,799 times
Reputation: 8153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajolotl View Post
I work in Europe three months a year (including Paris) -- many of the people I know get by with much less space and live a more urban and communal lifestyle. Not everyone, but it's much more common than with the people I know in the U.S., who prefer cars, space, and suburbs. I always thought of that as quintessentially European. Maybe it's just me, though.
I'm always surprised the few times I've watched House Hunters International by how how small homes outside the US are compared to those here. no 2,000+ sqft homes, no bathroom for every bedroom, no 200sqft master bedrooms, no garages for 2+ cars. everything is just very simple, basic. a major eyeopener to a different, least wasteful way of living
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:12 PM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,619 posts, read 8,170,326 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
I'm always surprised the few times I've watched House Hunters International by how how small homes outside the US are compared to those here. no 2,000+ sqft homes, no bathroom for every bedroom, no 200sqft master bedrooms, no garages for 2+ cars. everything is just very simple, basic. a major eyeopener to a different, least wasteful way of living
I have about 1,200 square feet downtown here in Chicago and while sometimes I like having the space, sometimes I wish I just had a very well-planned place half the size. It'd be half as much space to keep clean ... :-)
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,185,348 times
Reputation: 29983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajolotl View Post
I work in Europe three months a year (including Paris) -- many of the people I know get by with much less space and live a more urban and communal lifestyle. Not everyone, but it's much more common than with the people I know in the U.S., who prefer cars, space, and suburbs. I always thought of that as quintessentially European. Maybe it's just me, though.
It helps though that in some (maybe many?) European cities, the quality of life issues are more thorny in the suburbs than in the city proper. Paris is a prime example.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:15 PM
 
Location: River North, Chicago, Illinois
4,619 posts, read 8,170,326 times
Reputation: 6321
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajolotl View Post
I don't disagree at all, but still think it sounds better on paper than in reality (when kids are involved). You do make some serious sacrifices in addition to getting these things in return. The more money you have the fewer the sacrifices.
I've wanted to a write a book along the subject of "How to Raise Kids in the City" for a while now. I'm sure someone will beat me to the punch, but considering how many "normal," well-adjusted people grow up in dense urban areas world-wide, it can definitely be done. I think many Americans have forgotten how to do it because they simply haven't needed to do it.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,485 posts, read 12,535,852 times
Reputation: 4126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eevee View Post
I'm always surprised the few times I've watched House Hunters International by how how small homes outside the US are compared to those here. no 2,000+ sqft homes, no bathroom for every bedroom, no 200sqft master bedrooms, no garages for 2+ cars. everything is just very simple, basic. a major eyeopener to a different, least wasteful way of living
Let's not make the Euros look so pius. They live that way because that's all the space they have. We live the way we do because we can.
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