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Old 07-15-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,677,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
Please read 1Kings 21:21 in the KJV.

Then we will discuss my age.
Well... you never know. Maybe they were tired of people urinating on walls... some versions leave that out... but it could have real significance...
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Old 07-15-2010, 01:09 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,406,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
1Cor 15:55 in the NKJV

O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?

I'll never undestand why people use a bible translation written in the language of Shakespere as a proof text. I don't know *anyone* who uses the KJV.
I used two translations, in case you were not paying attention. And the question is, why isn't Hades translated as hell in that verse, when it is in many other verses?
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:05 PM
 
21,925 posts, read 16,721,895 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
1Cr 15:55
"Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death(Greek - Hades), is your sting?"(NIV)

O death, where is thy sting? O grave(Greek - Hades), where is thy victory?(KJV)


Why do you suppose that the translators of the scriptures into English translate the word "Hades" in this verse as grave and as death yet they translate the same word as hell throughout most of the new testament?
Forget about what the King James says. Look to the original language.

First of all, the Greek word for death is not hades. It is thnesko. Transliteration: thanatos. The Greek word for death is Thanatos and is used together with Hades in Rev 1:18 and can't be seen as being synomymous. '...I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.


The Greek word for grave is Mnemeion not hades. Mnemeion is used in passages such as Matt 27:60 and John 11:17.

These are better explained at my thread...

Tartarus, Sheol/Hades, and Gehenna

Second of all, the passage (1 Corinthians 15:55) concerns believers. Not those who died rejecting Christ as Savior.

Again. Forget the King James. The meaning is clear in the original Greek.

This will be my only comment on this.
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:22 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,406,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Forget about what the King James says. Look to the original language.

First of all, the Greek word for death is not hades. It is thnesko. Transliteration: thanatos. The Greek word for death is Thanatos and is used together with Hades in Rev 1:18 and can't be seen as being synomymous. '...I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades.


The Greek word for grave is Mnemeion not hades. Mnemeion is used in passages such as Matt 27:60 and John 11:17.

These are better explained at my thread...

Tartarus, Sheol/Hades, and Gehenna

Second of all, the passage (1 Corinthians 15:55) concerns believers. Not those who died rejecting Christ as Savior.

Again. Forget the King James. The meaning is clear in the original Greek.

This will be my only comment on this.

Again, the OP is a question. Why isn't the word translated as hell in this verse in any of the English translation when it usually is translated as hell when it is found elsewhere in the new testament?

Does anyone care to answer the OP?
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Old 07-16-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,437,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
1Cr 15:55
"Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death(Greek - Hades), is your sting?"(NIV)

O death, where is thy sting? O grave(Greek - Hades), where is thy victory?(KJV)


Why do you suppose that the translators of the scriptures into English translate the word "Hades" in this verse as grave and as death yet they translate the same word as hell throughout most of the new testament?
Isaiah called it the covenant with death
Paul says Christ delivers the kingdom to God the Father
Paul says the Hades, Death and the Grave is overcome in Christ.

John says the dead from Death and Hades are judged by their works.

Death, Hades and the Grave are synonomous in relationship, but not identical. They were the destination points for Israel, in which Christ came to deliver the captives from, and redeem His people from.

Through Christ, one can overcome and be victorious over all of these.
This passage alone refutes UR....among others.
In Christ, these destinations are non-existant for those who believe.
Without Christ, they are. No second chance.
Once in the grave, in death, and in Hell, there is no redemption from it.
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:41 PM
 
697 posts, read 914,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
1Cor 15:55 in the NKJV

O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?

I'll never undestand why people use a bible translation written in the language of Shakespere as a proof text. I don't know *anyone* who uses the KJV.
I must be missing your point. In the New International Version, it is:

"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"

How is there a big difference?
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:43 PM
 
697 posts, read 914,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Well... you never know. Maybe they were tired of people urinating on walls... some versions leave that out... but it could have real significance...

"A person could **** against a tree, he could **** on his mother, he could **** on his own breeches, and get off, but he must not **** against the wall -- that would be going quite too far. The origin of the divine prejudice against this humble crime is not stated; but we know that the prejudice was very strong -- so strong that nothing but a wholesale massacre of the people inhabiting the region where the wall was defiled could satisfy the Deity." -- Mark Twain, Letters from the Earth
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:46 PM
 
697 posts, read 914,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Hope for Tomorrow View Post

I love this passage! I've shared my belief that believers go straight to the Lord and unbelievers stay in the grave until resurrection. I'm not sure if anyone agrees with me, but it makes perfect sense to me. It says, "We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed." I don't think he was talking about a small part of humanity that will be on the planet during the rapture when he said, "We will not all sleep."

We know everyone dies except for those on earth at the rapture. (If you believe in the rapture. At this time I believe it just because that's what I was taught. I haven't studied it much.) So, if he didn't mean that the only people who don't "sleep" are those on earth at Jesus' return, then what? Who else does not sleep/die?

Since it says some sleep/die and others don't, I believe in "soul sleep" for the non-followers of Christ, and that followers' souls do not sleep/die but go to him immediately at death, and everyone has a bodily resurrection at the last trumpet. It coincides with John 3:16, other verses that say believers never die, the wages of sin are death, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, etc.
Very interesting, except for the rapture part since I don't think that is good theology, but the rest is very interesting. Thanks!
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:50 PM
 
697 posts, read 914,322 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
John says the dead from Death and Hades are judged by their works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Once in the grave, in death, and in Hell, there is no redemption from it.
So which is it?
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Old 07-16-2010, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,437,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmalltownKSgirl View Post
So which is it?
Which is what?
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