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While I enjoyed your premise, you have this misunderstood. We are to be IN the world, but not OF the world. IOW, this world is not our God. Nor is it our permanent place, for we long to be home with our Savior.
Now, having said that,,,
We are HIS world. The kosmos, to which this word 'world' is derived. When the pilgrims came to the Americas, they knew this. Their world was their order of things under God. It is a system, much like a constitution makes up the United States. Biblically, we call the USA our world. Same with the States. It also is our world.
All it is, is an order, or system of government. Jesus told Pilate His Kingdom was NOT of THEIR world. Of course not. This is a direct conflict with His Kingship. Same with Israel. He was not of their world.
But if you are IN Christ, you are in His world, His Kingdom.
Understand this, because it makes the difference between letting the devil and his minions have their way with you and your family, or standing and fighting them. When Christ ascended, He SAT. Where? The throne. His Kingdom has NO end, which means it has begun, from the foundation of the world. The establishment of the Kingdom of Light, and those of darkness. John 3:19
This is why the UR doctrine is wrong, because Jesus is the Savior of the world, but they think the world is encompassed throughout the earth, and that is NOT what kosmos is. It is a world-system...I.E
1) an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government
And until Christians start living like they actually have a King, and a Kingdom,,,then they are outside still. Rev 22
Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
As well as they should be 'outside'. They should be excommunicated out.
But we have forgotten the King, the Kingdom, and community. Sadly, but true! We keep looking up, instead of within. Raising children up Godly, setting a foundation on which to continue to build His Kingdom up, like the mustard seed.
You should be ashamed of yourself spreading all that truth at one time, how dare you Keep up the good work in Christ.
June can't help but wonder just what it is that makes people feel entitled to "set themselves apart" from both the world, and others. We all inhabit this world, regardless of religious beliefs. Those who wish to remain "separate" create an ungodly rift where one otherwise need not exist. To June's way of thinking, it doesn't exactly strike her as being particularly "Christian" to uphold such an exclusive, elitest, and separate attitude.
The Jesus that June has read about in the NT in no way appeared to endorse that, so June can't help but speculate as to why others would. It insults, all the while that it is cloaked in self-entitlement, and hardly permitting any room for the Christian love as expressed in the bible.
It's an attitudinal belief....
Take gentle care.
It is'nt Christian . . . it's Biblean. It is part of the corruption of Jesus' message instituted by the mainstream churches and their "precepts and doctrines of men." The dogmatists present and support a corrupted Jesus to the world in the perpetuation of an ignorant primitive belief system.
Jesus sent His disciples forth to share the Gospel. Here is what Jesus had to say:
Matthew 10
[11] And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
[12] And when ye come into an house, salute it.
[13] And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
[14] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
[15] Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Jesus did not come to make friends with the world. He came to save the world from its destruction. He came saying, "repent ye, and believe the gospel".
Well, have fun not making friends and only talking to others who believe the exact same things that you do. Personally, I like making friends - with anybody and everybody!
June can't help but wonder just what it is that makes people feel entitled to "set themselves apart" from both the world, and others.
June, we all have this entitlement. It is called being born human. We are not robots, nor are we slaves. I know you do not believe in God, but regardless of this fact, He is our Creator.
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We all inhabit this world, regardless of religious beliefs.
Yes we do. We inhabit this earth regardless of human institutions as well. Statism is what I am talking about. See, this is why Jesus came. The people of His day could not see it, but He has literally freed those who are His. Like Moses of old, this one takes place not in the physical only realm, but in the spiritual realm as well. Unless you believe you are free, you will never BE free. Unlike the Israelites of old, who didn't even enjoy their freedom, they demanded a earthly king to reign over them, so they could be like all the other nations.
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Those who wish to remain "separate" create an ungodly rift where one otherwise need not exist.
Actually, the only way any 'rift' can occur, is when one group of people want and desire something that belongs to someone else. Otherwise, why would they even care? Who lived where, and what they believed, unless,,,it was a threat to THEIR world-system. Why would it be a threat? History answers this quite nicely.
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To June's way of thinking, it doesn't exactly strike her as being particularly "Christian" to uphold such an exclusive, elitest, and separate attitude.
Maybe for some religious kooks, but not for those who are called of Him. Christians serve others. They minister to their needs, both physical annd spiritual. They do this out of love for one another, and their Creator, God. They have but 1 King, and His name is Jesus. They have a relationship, not religion.
They do not see people as the enemy, yet they are aware of who controls THEIR world-systems. THey keep the thief at bay, and away from their houses and children. They remain undefiled to the other world-systems, even to the death.
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The Jesus that June has read about in the NT in no way appeared to endorse that, so June can't help but speculate as to why others would.
Actually, Jesus was quite clear how Christians were to act, as was Paul.
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It insults, all the while that it is cloaked in self-entitlement, and hardly permitting any room for the Christian love as expressed in the bible.
Well, hopefully when you see it from a non-arrogant stance, then you will understand what I am talking about. Most people are not pushy, unless they are religious. Then it is all about the 'numbers' they can recruit. When I talk to people about Jesus, they are fascinated beyond belief. They see Him for what He is. A King. A Savior. A Lamb. A Brother.
The ultimate Servant, giving His own life, to the world. Accept, and you are free. Absolutely free.
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It's an attitudinal belief....
Yep, that is what it is. But it must come from within, and from Him.
Jesus sent His disciples forth to share the Gospel. Here is what Jesus had to say:
Matthew 10
[11] And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
[12] And when ye come into an house, salute it.
[13] And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
[14] And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
[15] Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Jesus did not come to make friends with the world. He came to save the world from its destruction. He came saying, "repent ye, and believe the gospel".
"No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.
So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God's household,
Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
Does these verses not apply to you, sir?
Do you know what Jesus has made known to you?
Are you a Citizen of the Kingdom of Jesus Christ?
Are you a joint heir, and a adopted son?
June, we all have this entitlement. It is called being born human. We are not robots, nor are we slaves. I know you do not believe in God, but regardless of this fact, He is our Creator.!
We most certainly are slaves to this present order UNTIL God opens eyes and calls somebody. Nothing else will do. No threats, no emotional pleas, NOTHING. Threats of hell and eternal damnation gets you a bunch of people sitting around in pews not knowing what the heck is going on, and they usually end up scared, lost, confused, arrogant, empty and/or give up trying to understand God altogether, making statements like, "well, that's just the way God is." "He knows best." If you cannot LOVE like God loves, you will be a slave to human interpretation.
There are many kinds of slaves still around; Slaves to the present political/economical system and slaves to a religious system that makes no sense whatsoever because of blind guides leading blinder masses.
UNTIL a human being's eyes are opened by God in this PHYSICAL realm to believe and undestand spiritual things, they will only understand scripture through human eyes. No amount of yelling or crying or manipulation will open their spiritual eyes. I would say most pastors/teachers are still very much trying to interpret scripture through human eyes.
Futility
Revelation 5:13.
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
We most certainly are slaves to this present order UNTIL God opens eyes and calls somebody. Nothing else will do. No threats, no emotional pleas, NOTHING. Threats of hell and eternal damnation gets you a bunch of people sitting around in pews not knowing what the heck is going on, and they usually end up scared, lost, confused, arrogant, empty and/or give up trying to understand God altogether, making statements like, "well, that's just the way God is." "He knows best." If you cannot LOVE like God loves, you will be a slave to human interpretation.
There are many kinds of slaves still around; Slaves to the present political/economical system and slaves to a religious system that makes no sense whatsoever because of blind guides leading blinder masses.
UNTIL a human being's eyes are opened by God in this PHYSICAL realm to believe and undestand spiritual things, they will only understand scripture through human eyes. No amount of yelling or crying or manipulation will open their spiritual eyes. I would say most pastors/teachers are still very much trying to interpret scripture through human eyes.
Futility
Revelation 5:13.
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!"
Nothing wrong with this post.
I agree with it completely, as it is backed up in the Word.
June can't help but wonder just what it is that makes people feel entitled to "set themselves apart" from both the world, and others. We all inhabit this world, regardless of religious beliefs. Those who wish to remain "separate" create an ungodly rift where one otherwise need not exist. To June's way of thinking, it doesn't exactly strike her as being particularly "Christian" to uphold such an exclusive, elitest, and separate attitude.
The Jesus that June has read about in the NT in no way appeared to endorse that, so June can't help but speculate as to why others would. It insults, all the while that it is cloaked in self-entitlement, and hardly permitting any room for the Christian love as expressed in the bible.
It's an attitudinal belief....
Take gentle care.
So that a house divided cannot stand!
Exactly fitting with the adversary's agenda.
Jesus certainly did not...He spoke/speaks of "LOVE" as the measuring rod to be emulated by his followers (whether they knew that they are following him or not...)
~FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO~
Take gentle heart care "just June" (I found it fitting to quote you on this one...)
In being the only person who really addressed June's post, June would like to both thank you, and let you know that she has always respected your point of view. June means that, as June is not someone who could be insincere in her words or actions; at least not intentionally.
However, as regards what you wrote below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ
Actually, the only way any 'rift' can occur, is when one group of people want and desire something that belongs to someone else. Otherwise, why would they even care? Who lived where, and what they believed, unless,,,it was a threat to THEIR world-system. Why would it be a threat? History answers this quite nicely.
June tends to feel that what you have written applies to both sides of the issue. If you re-read what you, yourself wrote, from the standpoint of a non-believer, then it absolutely applies and could easily have been written by an atheist, or a believer. June, for one, does not feel that "religion" should be a "threat" to anyone on any level. There is simply no need for it to be so, and certainly it was never intended to be. However, you also need to offset that by the following, as written/contained within the OP:
"The Lord told us to be separate....Aside from delivering the Gospel, we are not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers."
June hates to tell you this, (and she means this respectfully) she has a hard time accepting the above. Let's face it: Those who believe as the words above indicate interact on a daily basis with those who are "of the likes of June." June cannot --cannot!-- for the life of her imagine anyone being receptive to your Gospel (much less God) when there is a permeating attitude of "separatism" and "ellitism" being projected outwards towards the "unequally yokedness" and attitude towards nonbelievers. June has, more than once, and on a number of ocassions re-evaluated her nonbeliever stance and atheism. Why, however, would she even be the least bit receptive to listening to someone who regards him/herself as totally separate from, and a part from "the likes of June?" --In short, she wouldn't.
June understands (in purely intellectual terms) the theology of what the OP is putting forth, and she is not "bashing" him/her in terms of what she is attempting to express here. She is merely trying to make a point. We are all (according to your faith/belief) sinners, and to attempt to elevate oneself to anything other than that is (to June's way of thinking) a complete misrepresentation of the gospel...
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Originally Posted by HotinAZ
Well, hopefully when you see it from a non-arrogant stance, then you will understand what I am talking about. Most people are not pushy, unless they are religious. Then it is all about the 'numbers' they can recruit. When I talk to people about Jesus, they are fascinated beyond belief. They see Him for what He is. A King. A Savior. A Lamb. A Brother.
Not quite sure whether June is the one who is being "arrogant" here, or whether you are addressing June's feeling that she perceives "arrogance" in the separatism of the OP. She does, however, readily accept what you have to say regarding your talking about Jesus, and imagines that you would be doing so such that those you address are "fascinated beyond belief." June's more than willing to be a receptive listener.
--She just wonders whether that which is expressed in the OP enables, or in any way attempts to facillitate that, given what was said. (Refer once again to the bolded quote, above.)
It's sad, really. You all are so "a part" from the world at large that you so desperately feel you wish to convert, or at the very least deliver the gospel/message of Jesus to. And yet, you lose them. Due to separatism.
Thank God Jesus didn't have the same attitude, otherwise it's doubtful his simple sentiment of "follow me" wouldn't have resulted in much. June, for one, would most certainly have been much more inclined to follow that directive than one that already has pre-supposed that she is any more "separate" and a burden to any believer...More of a "sinner" than the person sitting across from her talking to her about the gospel. (Is June even clear in what she is trying to get across here???)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ
You too, Sunshine June!
You are a dear soul, HotinAZ....
Take gentle care.
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