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In being the only person who really addressed June's post, June would like to both thank you, and let you know that she has always respected your point of view. June means that, as June is not someone who could be insincere in her words or actions; at least not intentionally.
I completely respect your views as well.
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June tends to feel that what you have written applies to both sides of the issue. If you re-read what you, yourself wrote, from the standpoint of a non-believer, then it absolutely applies and could easily have been written by an atheist, or a believer.
True. The thing is June, is that Jesus' teachings about the Kingdom could literally apply to every situation where there is a master or ruler or government over someone's lives. It means that you are not free, in the absolute sense. Someone has laid claim to God's property, as well over the lives of billions. So, for someone to stand 'outside' of this issue, makes then by the very nature,,a enemy.
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June, for one, does not feel that "religion" should be a "threat" to anyone on any level.
I agree. History doesn't though, as the millions of lost life can attest to this.
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There is simply no need for it to be so, and certainly it was never intended to be.
Also agree.
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However, you also need to offset that by the following, as written/contained within the OP:
"The Lord told us to be separate....Aside from delivering the Gospel, we are not to be unequally yoked together with unbelievers."
June hates to tell you this, (and she means this respectfully) she has a hard time accepting the above.
But we need to understand what is "unequally yoked". Look at it this way. If you have a community filled with people who know no hate, why would you want someone who hates to live among you? If you have a community filled with people who tell the truth, would you want a liar among you? This is the unequally yoked they are talking about. Keep the body pure, and undefiled.
As a Christian, I can see this, yet we do not live this. Isolated amongst our own families, but spread out among the world-systems. Their is indeed unity and strength in numbers. But this would also apply to other peoples too, like atheists, gays, and a whole host of differing opinions that cannot live together among people who feel this way. I don't mean to sound separatist, but really, wouldn't the world be a whole lot nicer if we were? And this goes for all peoples, nations, and tongues, ideologies, theologies, etc.
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Let's face it: Those who believe as the words above indicate interact on a daily basis with those who are "of the likes of June."
But we do not live together, right? We do not community together, outside of here. So, really, only the message is relayed through our thoughts and actions based upon a simulated make believe world of the internet. But how powerful it is. It can reach across divides, without direct confrontation. Either we walk away, or stay and communicate.
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June cannot --cannot!-- for the life of her imagine anyone being receptive to your Gospel (much less God) when there is a permeating attitude of "separatism" and "elitism" being projected out wards to wards the "unequally yokedness" and attitude to wards nonbelievers.
I can understand this, but hopefully you now understand really what I am saying.
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June has, more than once, and on a number of occasions re-evaluated her nonbeliever stance and atheism. Why, however, would she even be the least bit receptive to listening to someone who regards him/herself as totally separate from, and a part from "the likes of June?" --In short, she wouldn't.
Technically, we are not apart, as we are communicating across the 'world'.
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June understands (in purely intellectual terms) the theology of what the OP is putting forth, and she is not "bashing" him/her in terms of what she is attempting to express here. She is merely trying to make a point. We are all (according to your faith/belief) sinners, and to attempt to elevate oneself to anything other than that is (to June's way of thinking) a complete misrepresentation of the gospel...
When sin is the focus, then there is not love. Love is what changes a person, which we believe is God, since God is love. Sin does something against your fellow human beings when committed, or against God for those who know Him. Yet, why would a person who is filled with love, sin? Would I lie to you? Would I want to kill you? Would I want anything from you, or do you even have anything I want? Then there is no sin commiited against you. It is easy, yet people make it difficult, to where theyy cannot even understand the basics of the message. What is this?
Love one another, as I have loved you.
Simple as it gets. If people just felt this, and acted upon this love, then the chaos in the world-system would not even exist, because the powers that run it would have NO POWER. We give them their power. They then take it by force when they have amassed enough.
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Not quite sure whether June is the one who is being "arrogant" here, or whether you are addressing June's feeling that she perceives "arrogance" in the separatism of the OP. She does, however, readily accept what you have to say regarding your talking about Jesus, and imagines that you would be doing so such that those you address are "fascinated beyond belief." June's more than willing to be a receptive listener.
I love you too,Just June. You are one of those special souls that does have a purpose, and is fulfilling this purpose. Your kindness, even with your beliefs have probably helped even the most fundamental of Christians.
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--She just wonders whether that which is expressed in the OP enables, or in any way attempts to facilitate that, given what was said. (Refer once again to the bolded quote, above.)
Well, people have mistaken the scriptures since they were penned. Right? So how do any of us know for certain we have the Truth? By stayiing focused on Him, is how I do it. Seeking daily.
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It's sad, really. You all are so "a part" from the world at large that you so desperately feel you wish to convert, or at the very least deliver the gospel/message of Jesus to. And yet, you lose them. Due to separatism.
See, this is where you are misunderstanding. And it is also why being labled a cult has taken on a new meaning. Think of it this way. Everyone wanted into Willy Wonka's Chocolate factory. But only a few were given a ticket. Willy knew who he wanted, and set up various tests to see if Charlie could pass them. Yet, EVERYONE wanted in. Am I making sense?
God does this to Christians, daily. We are tested, and tried daily. People think they already have the ticket, to their shame. They think that just because they were somehow blessed spiritually, that God says enough. We have to remember that the Kingdom is Jesus', and we get to partake in it, only through adoption. But God judges, and Jesus saves.
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Thank God Jesus didn't have the same attitude, otherwise it's doubtful his simple sentiment of "follow me" wouldn't have resulted in much.
But they understood it,,,we are the ones who don't.
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June, for one, would most certainly have been much more inclined to follow that directive than one that already has pre-supposed that she is any more "separate" and a burden to any believer...More of a "sinner" than the person sitting across from her talking to her about the gospel. (Is June even clear in what she is trying to get across here???)
Yes, I get it. It is sad more people do not see how wonderful it is to live the Christian life, in the Christian 'world'. The early believers loved it, evne to the death. They loved their King above all rulers of even the world-systems the abided in, and it meant death to those as well in some cases.
Early France was good example of how differing faith could live in harmony, until the Pope and Catholics drove them off their lands, and sent them across the seas. Before this, it was complete harmony. It is only when people desire something from others, even to use force and law against the innocent, that we run into huge divides. Then they keep uus divided so that they can weild their power over the masses. It is amazing how they acomplish this, yet when one can see their game for what it is,,,it is just sad. So I spend my days telling people, of all faiths, and creeds, about the monster ruling over thier lives. When they ask me about my faith, I enjoy telling them about how free I am serving my King.
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You are a dear soul, HotinAZ....
As are you, Just June.
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Take gentle care.
You too.
I pray that one day your eyes will be opened to hear the glorious pure news of the gospel, and how it pertains to ALL humans from all walks of life.
Think of it this way. Everyone wanted into Willy Wonka's Chocolate factory. But only a few were given a ticket. Willy knew who he wanted, and set up various tests to see if Charlie could pass them. Yet, EVERYONE wanted in. Am I making sense?
God does this to Christians, daily. We are tested, and tried daily..
HotinAZ, I really like your posts, but I have to say one (or two, or three....) things here. Life is not Willy Wonka's Chocolate factory. And, the testing is for a much bigger purpose, here.
But we need to understand what is "unequally yoked". Look at it this way. If you have a community filled with people who know no hate, why would you want someone who hates to live among you? If you have a community filled with people who tell the truth, would you want a liar among you? This is the unequally yoked they are talking about. Keep the body pure, and undefiled.
As a Christian, I can see this, yet we do not live this. Isolated amongst our own families, but spread out among the world-systems. Their is indeed unity and strength in numbers. But this would also apply to other peoples too, like atheists, gays, and a whole host of differing opinions that cannot live together among people who feel this way. I don't mean to sound separatist, but really, wouldn't the world be a whole lot nicer if we were? And this goes for all peoples, nations, and tongues, ideologies, theologies, etc.
Although I respect your feelings - to me this sounds awful! I would never want to live only among people that are exactly the same as me! First of all - I believe that would be impossible as I am half Japanese, half Jewish, and agnostic/atheist. I have friends and loved ones of all different faiths, all different races, all different sexual orientations, and all different opinions. My ideal world is one where we all respect each other and accept each other - regardless of our faiths, ethnicities, sexual preferences. My ideal world is not one where we are all separated. How can you learn from anyone if you are only surrounded by people that have the same beliefs as you? I think life would be mighty boring if I only interacted with people who were just like me. And for me - it would also be very lonely since I don't think there are very many people like me.
When you see people for who they are - who they really are, what is in their heart and what is in their mind - you find that there is something to be learned from everyone - regardless of their faith.
Although I respect your feelings - to me this sounds awful! I would never want to live only among people that are exactly the same as me! First of all - I believe that would be impossible as I am half Japanese, half Jewish, and agnostic/atheist. I have friends and loved ones of all different faiths, all different races, all different sexual orientations, and all different opinions. My ideal world is one where we all respect each other and accept each other - regardless of our faiths, ethnicities, sexual preferences. My ideal world is not one where we are all separated. How can you learn from anyone if you are only surrounded by people that have the same beliefs as you? I think life would be mighty boring if I only interacted with people who were just like me. And for me - it would also be very lonely since I don't think there are very many people like me.
When you see people for who they are - who they really are, what is in their heart and what is in their mind - you find that there is something to be learned from everyone - regardless of their faith.
I didn't mean it to sound awful, for sure. Yes there are things we can learn from one another, but if you desire anything from another, then for some, theft or some other means to attaining this comes to mind, unless they are morally sound.
Sexual preferences also. I do not want my sons and daughters around people who openly fornicate, nor do I want to see for myself. Why? My beliefs, and even though I do not hate them or despise them, I choose to live apart from them. Yes, we have friends that are even gay, and they respect my opinions on this issue, as well as I respect theirs, for my beliefs. I push nothing, on noone. If interested, I talk.
What I mean about like minded people, is the village community. I am not talking about traveling, nor shopping, or anything else. I am talking about close proximity in housing and education and worship. Being removed from the world-system, yet having to live in it.
I hope this is making sense. I do have friends from all walks of life, yet I choose very carefully who comes to my house. I choose very carefully who my kids play with, and learn from.
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My ideal world is one where we all respect each other and accept each other - regardless of our faiths, ethnicities, sexual preferences.
My ideal world is where Jesus reigns as King, and people do not envy and covet what the other person has. They tell the truth, and keep the sanctity of vows pure. Both marriage, and beliefs.
I do respect others for their beliefs, and have some of my most interesting talks with them. But I am an adult, and can handle most situations. My children need instruction, and pure teaching. Hense, seperate. Families who play together, seperate. Families who worship together, seperate.
HotinAZ, I really like your posts, but I have to say one (or two, or three....) things here. Life is not Willy Wonka's Chocolate factory. And, the testing is for a much bigger purpose, here.
Although I respect your feelings - to me this sounds awful! I would never want to live only among people that are exactly the same as me! First of all - I believe that would be impossible as I am half Japanese, half Jewish, and agnostic/atheist. I have friends and loved ones of all different faiths, all different races, all different sexual orientations, and all different opinions. My ideal world is one where we all respect each other and accept each other - regardless of our faiths, ethnicities, sexual preferences. My ideal world is not one where we are all separated. How can you learn from anyone if you are only surrounded by people that have the same beliefs as you? I think life would be mighty boring if I only interacted with people who were just like me. And for me - it would also be very lonely since I don't think there are very many people like me.
When you see people for who they are - who they really are, what is in their heart and what is in their mind - you find that there is something to be learned from everyone - regardless of their faith.
Well put Dewdrop
Peel away "religion" and you see the heart of the matter...
I didn't mean it to sound awful, for sure. Yes there are things we can learn from one another, but if you desire anything from another, then for some, theft or some other means to attaining this comes to mind, unless they are morally sound.
Sexual preferences also. I do not want my sons and daughters around people who openly fornicate, nor do I want to see for myself. Why? My beliefs, and even though I do not hate them or despise them, I choose to live apart from them. Yes, we have friends that are even gay, and they respect my opinions on this issue, as well as I respect theirs, for my beliefs. I push nothing, on noone. If interested, I talk.
What I mean about like minded people, is the village community. I am not talking about traveling, nor shopping, or anything else. I am talking about close proximity in housing and education and worship. Being removed from the world-system, yet having to live in it.
I hope this is making sense. I do have friends from all walks of life, yet I choose very carefully who comes to my house. I choose very carefully who my kids play with, and learn from.
My ideal world is where Jesus reigns as King, and people do not envy and covet what the other person has. They tell the truth, and keep the sanctity of vows pure. Both marriage, and beliefs.
I do respect others for their beliefs, and have some of my most interesting talks with them. But I am an adult, and can handle most situations. My children need instruction, and pure teaching. Hense, seperate. Families who play together, seperate. Families who worship together, seperate.
In the world, not OF it.
I respectfully disagree with you. WhenI look at my little community - I don't see liars or murderers or thieves - I think I have a pretty nice little community. I do see people of all races and creeds - which I am really happy about since I didn't know what to expect when I moved here! Everyone here is friendly and nice! I just moved here a few months ago and I already know about 30 or so of my nieghbors and have even joined the book club! For the most part - I have no idea what faith people are - except for one atheist and one woman who mentioned going to church. When we have kids - although I wouldn't leave them with a pedophile - I do want them to be exposed to all different types of people. I will guide them, of course, but I want them to form their own opinions and beliefs. I want them to learn to think for themselves. My friends and family are fairly liberal, for the most part, and my husband's family and friends from college are very conservative. So - our children will be exposed to all sorts of people no matter who we lived among. There is a great quote from "The Prophet" that I often think of where he talks about how the lowest among us is no lower than the lowest that is within all of us and the most righteous among us is no better than the best that is within all of us. We are all connected to each other and should try to lift the low in order to make us all better.
As for people that openly fornicate - what exactly does that mean? People that have sex in public places? I mean - most people fornicate - but I wouldn't want them doing it my living room right in front of me!
Yeah, I was kind of bummed out, too. I'm a bit of a sugar freak.
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