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That level of intense education (some would call it indoctrination) is what leads a lot of my fellow SBC believer's, and some from other denominations, to refer to the LDS as a cult. Personally, I don't know enough about the curriculum or the process to say one way or the other, but I do know we too teach our own children about the tenents of our faith (or should!). It's just usually not so formalized.
My post may have made it sound a lot more "intense" than it really is. For instance, three-year olds might be taught that their Father in Heaven gave them their eyes. Then they'll talk about all of the beautiful things they can see with their eyes, and if the weather is nice, maybe walk outside and look at the flowers, the trees, etc. Then they'll go back inside and draw a picture (a 3-yr-old piece of art ) of what they saw outside. By the time they're six, they're talking about more involved concepts and principles. It might be something like how we lived with our Father in Heaven before we came to earth (LDS doctrine of the pre-existance of man) and how he gave us the opportunity to come down here to gain a physical body and to learn to have faith in Him and keep His commandments. At all points, the lessons are very low-key and definitely non-threatening. There is virtually no mention of hellfire and damnation. There is only talk of God's love and Jesus Christ's sacrifice and how they can show them they love them, too. By the way, their parents are in classes during this period of time, too, discussing many of the same topics, but in much greater depth. I know most Southern Baptists think we're a cult. It's so hard for me to know if that's a malicious judgment or not, but it really does hurt. I've pretty much learned to ignore it, though.
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As for that other subject? I'll have to demur for awhile before starting in on that because I'll have to have time to do some research and pull up the specific references in the Bible which leads me to believe that. It's not something I've studied in quite awhile. I know it's there but, once having made up my mind, I naturally moved on and will now have to go back and resurrect it. I don't mind doing that, of course, but two of the 5 year old grandkids have been here all day, all week, and Papaw is mentally and physically exhausted. Today is the last day and Saturday will be my day of rest.
I'll get to it, but it may be a few days before I'm able to think logically again!
I think you definitely need a day of rest! Take your time. I'm in no hurry. I'll just check back from time to time to see if you've responded.
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(By the way...yesterday, they had on their bathing suits, playing with the water hose! A month ago, we were in the midst of a prolonged, near-zero cold snap and were covered up in snow and ice, yet here they were acting like it was summer and it's technically still winter. Ain't Texas grand? )
Well, I envy you! I don't expect to see true springlike weather until about the third week of April, and I'm so done with winter! Where in Texas are you? The only place in Texas I've been is Dallas. I went there on business once. Very friendly, fun place. I came back home after one short week saying "y'all" to people but without the drawl. I got a few odd looks.
Katzpur sounds alot like reguler old Sunday school to me, and what we were taught growing up. Its sad how people only hone in what is different, and instead of even trying to embrace the differances or even trying to learn about them they see it as something bad.
Katzpur sounds alot like reguler old Sunday school to me, and what we were taught growing up.
That's exactly what it is. I can pretty much guarantee that a anyone visiting an LDS Church Sunday worship service would find nothing in it to get freaked out over (except for the length of it, perhaps ). The format is as follows:
"Sacrament Meeting": 70 minutes long. The primary purpose of this meeting is to take "the Sacrament" (probably known in other Christian Churches as Communion, Eucharist, or the Lord's Supper). Prayer, hymns and sermons (we call them "talks") are also part of the service.
"Sunday School": 40 minutes long. Though it may strike some people as odd, the Sunday School program is actually for adults anyone over the age of twelve. Classes for teenagers are divided by age-group. This year all adults in the Church (worldwide) are studying the New Testament. Last year they were studying the Old Testament.
"Relief Society" for the women, "Priesthood Meeting" for the men and teenage boys, and "Young Women" for the teenage girls. 50 minutes long. These classes are just more gospel study on various topics. The subject matter emphasized in the classes the 12 to 18-year-olds (boys and girls) attend is geared towards helping them meet the difficult challenges they'll meet during the teenage years (such as remaining morally chaste, drug-free, and avoiding pornography).
During the 40 and 50-minute time periods, children from ages 3 to 12 attend "Primary," which is the instruction period I explained in more depth to stillkat.
There's a 10 minute break between each of the three time periods so that people class move to different classrooms, etc. so it comes to a total of 3 hours.
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Its sad how people only hone in what is different, and instead of even trying to embrace the differances or even trying to learn about them they see it as something bad.
Isn't it, though. It's really, really sad. I actually enjoy going to non-LDS worship services from time to time, and have had only one negative experience doing so. I'd probably do so more often except that I am kind of nervous going alone, without someone of that denomination to go with.
It looks like people are still voting on the poll. I guess I should have set a date after which the poll would be closed. I just thought that anyone who was interested in voting would have voted a couple of weeks back. People are also still voting for the wrong answers, so hopefully they're going through the thread and reading up on both why the wrong answers are wrong and what the right answer is.
Also, there have also been a couple of people who have voted for "new" wrong answers (answers none of the people who first voted chose). So, as I see these, I'll explain why they're wrong.
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A belief in polygamy is a sign of the true Church. Ideally, all men would have at least two wives.
One person picked this choice. It is incorrect.
A belief in polygamy, or plural marriage with one man having more than one wife, is probably the thing that most people outside our faith think of when they hear the word "Mormonism," even though it has not been practiced by members of our Church for over 115 years. I could easily meet the maximum word count allowed for a single post if I were to write everything I know about polygamy in the early LDS Church, but it would probably be more than most people would bother reading.
We believe that polygamy is an “eternal principle” that is practiced only when God authorizes it for His own purposes and that is strictly forbidden at all other times.
Most people are no doubt aware that a number of the Old Testament prophets had many wives. Abraham is perhaps the best known of these, although I could name several others. I have heard people say that God just “turned a blind eye” to Abraham’s plural marriages, that while He did not actually condemn the practice, He definitely did not approve of it. That’s certainly not what I have come to expect of God. Had He really disapproved of Abraham’s multiple marriages, I think we can be certain He would have made this absolutely clear. But He didn’t. He never once condemned Abraham for having multiple wives. As a matter of fact, I cannot think of a single person in the Old Testament God chose to bless more than He did Abraham. He blessed him specifically because he was obedient.
According to the LDS Church’s official site, “In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle.” The practice was officially announced in 1852 (although a few plural marriages took place before that date) and was officially discontinued about 40 years later. But why would God have commanded Joseph to institute a practice that initially appears to contradict that which we read in 1 Timothy 3 (which teaches that monogamy is God's will)?
In the Book of Mormon, we read (the italics are mine), “Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes. For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
Here the Lord is stressing (I don’t think that’s too strong a word) that monogamy should be the general rule and should be observed at all times except when He specifically commands His people for the purpose of “raising up seed” to Him. In other words, it appears that he commands the practice only at times when a righteous man’s progeny (children dedicated to honoring and serving the Lord) would not increase as quickly as the Lord wishes it to. We believe this to have been the case in the early days of Mormonism. When the Church was founded in 1830, there were just six members. It grew quickly, but the members were persecuted to a degree that the average American is oblivious to. (Did you know, for instance, that ours is the only religion in the United States that has ever had an official "extermination order" issued against it? In fact, it was legal to kill a Mormon anywhere in Missouri until as recently as 1976.) At any rate, hypothetically speaking, if this new church was, in fact, the re-establishment of ancient Christianity as it has always claimed to be, it would have been critical that its numbers increase at least as quickly as possible, so that within even a couple of generations, the likelihood that it disappear altogether would be significantly reduced.
We do believe that in the afterlife, some men will have more than one wife. Obviously, it would be impossible for every man to have at least two wives unless a great many men were to have no wife at all. Since we believe the union between a man and a woman is holy in God's eyes, we also believe He would want every deserving man to have a wife at his side throughout eternity.
It’s so important to Mormons that everybody convert to our faith that the means justify the end.
Incorrect.
Way, way, way incorrect. One of the very first things an LDS child learns in Primary (the Church's children's program) is that our Father in Heaven gave each one of us "free agency." That's a phrase that is a part of most six-year-old LDS kids' vocabulary. It means that God will tell us those things it's important for us to know, and He expects us to obey. It also means that He would never, ever try to force us to do so.
Our eleventh Article of Faith states, "We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."
The Book of Mormon describes this freedom of belief as it was practiced among the Book of Mormon people, in Alma 30:7-11. It says, "Now there was no law against a man's belief; for it was strictly contrary to the commands of God that there should be a law which should bring men on to unequal grounds. For thus saith the scripture: Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve. Now if a man desired to serve God, it was his privilege; or rather, if he believed in God it was his privilege to serve him; but if he did not believe in him there was no law to punish him. But if he murdered he was punished unto death; and if he robbed he was also punished; and if he stole he was also punished; and if he committed adultery he was also punished; yea, for all this wickedness they were punished. For there was a law that men should be judged according to their crimes. Nevertheless, there was no law against a man's belief; therefore, a man was punished only for the crimes which he had done; therefore all men were on equal grounds."
We are obviously known for our proselytizing efforts. Most people who have been approached by Mormon missionaries, however, would probably agree that these young men and women almost refuse to be dragged into arguments. They want very much to share their beliefs because they sincerely believe that people will benefit by accepting them. They do not attempt to coerce people, though. The Church never, ever goes into a foreign country for the purpose of setting up a missionary program without the permission of government officials. We go in the front door or we don't go in at all.
We don't promise people anything of material value for joining the Church and none of the humanitarian work we do has any strings attached. As a matter of fact, when the tsunami hit over in southeast Asia the day after Christmas a few years back, the Church sent over not only food, clothing, and medical supplies, but a shipment of Korans, since we knew that the people in that area were primarily Muslim and had likely lost their scriptures when they lost everything else. Does that sound like something we'd have done if getting converts is so important to us that we'd do anything to attain our goal?
The Primary(children's) lessons are on lds.org. If you go to menu, then to study, then to manuals, on the left side it says Primary. Those are the lessons the children are taught. It also has the adult lessons and the lessons for the youth.
Thanks. I'll check it out, even though my opinion doesn't amount to anything, does it?
We don't promise people anything of material value for joining the Church and none of the humanitarian work we do has any strings attached. As a matter of fact, when the tsunami hit over in southeast Asia the day after Christmas a few years back, the Church sent over not only food, clothing, and medical supplies, but a shipment of Korans, since we knew that the people in that area were primarily Muslim and had likely lost their scriptures when they lost everything else. Does that sound like something we'd have done if getting converts is so important to us that we'd do anything to attain our goal?
LOL We don't promise anything of material value either, nor to we require anyone to listen to a sermon or accept a tract or anything else. We're just there to show Christ's love and would even cut the trees of the devil's house if he needed us!
But, handing out Qu'ran's would be a little much for we Southern Baptist's!
That's exactly what it is. I can pretty much guarantee that a anyone visiting an LDS Church Sunday worship service would find nothing in it to get freaked out over (except for the length of it, perhaps ). The format is as follows:
"Sacrament Meeting": 70 minutes long. The primary purpose of this meeting is to take "the Sacrament" (probably known in other Christian Churches as Communion, Eucharist, or the Lord's Supper). Prayer, hymns and sermons (we call them "talks") are also part of the service.
"Sunday School": 40 minutes long. Though it may strike some people as odd, the Sunday School program is actually for adults anyone over the age of twelve. Classes for teenagers are divided by age-group. This year all adults in the Church (worldwide) are studying the New Testament. Last year they were studying the Old Testament.
"Relief Society" for the women, "Priesthood Meeting" for the men and teenage boys, and "Young Women" for the teenage girls. 50 minutes long. These classes are just more gospel study on various topics. The subject matter emphasized in the classes the 12 to 18-year-olds (boys and girls) attend is geared towards helping them meet the difficult challenges they'll meet during the teenage years (such as remaining morally chaste, drug-free, and avoiding pornography).
During the 40 and 50-minute time periods, children from ages 3 to 12 attend "Primary," which is the instruction period I explained in more depth to stillkat.
There's a 10 minute break between each of the three time periods so that people class move to different classrooms, etc. so it comes to a total of 3 hours.
We might be able to sit through that so long as it's not football season!
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Isn't it, though. It's really, really sad. I actually enjoy going to non-LDS worship services from time to time, and have had only one negative experience doing so. I'd probably do so more often except that I am kind of nervous going alone, without someone of that denomination to go with.
It looks like people are still voting on the poll. I guess I should have set a date after which the poll would be closed. I just thought that anyone who was interested in voting would have voted a couple of weeks back. People are also still voting for the wrong answers, so hopefully they're going through the thread and reading up on both why the wrong answers are wrong and what the right answer is.
Also, there have also been a couple of people who have voted for "new" wrong answers (answers none of the people who first voted chose). So, as I see these, I'll explain why they're wrong.
One person picked this choice. It is incorrect.
A belief in polygamy, or plural marriage with one man having more than one wife, is probably the thing that most people outside our faith think of when they hear the word "Mormonism," even though it has not been practiced by members of our Church for over 115 years. I could easily meet the maximum word count allowed for a single post if I were to write everything I know about polygamy in the early LDS Church, but it would probably be more than most people would bother reading.
We believe that polygamy is an “eternal principle” that is practiced only when God authorizes it for His own purposes and that is strictly forbidden at all other times.
Most people are no doubt aware that a number of the Old Testament prophets had many wives. Abraham is perhaps the best known of these, although I could name several others. I have heard people say that God just “turned a blind eye” to Abraham’s plural marriages, that while He did not actually condemn the practice, He definitely did not approve of it. That’s certainly not what I have come to expect of God. Had He really disapproved of Abraham’s multiple marriages, I think we can be certain He would have made this absolutely clear. But He didn’t. He never once condemned Abraham for having multiple wives. As a matter of fact, I cannot think of a single person in the Old Testament God chose to bless more than He did Abraham. He blessed him specifically because he was obedient.
According to the LDS Church’s official site, “In 1831, Church founder Joseph Smith made a prayerful inquiry about the ancient Old Testament practice of plural marriage. This resulted in the divine instruction to reinstitute the practice as a religious principle.” The practice was officially announced in 1852 (although a few plural marriages took place before that date) and was officially discontinued about 40 years later. But why would God have commanded Joseph to institute a practice that initially appears to contradict that which we read in 1 Timothy 3 (which teaches that monogamy is God's will)?
In the Book of Mormon, we read (the italics are mine), “Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none; For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women. And whoredoms are an abomination before me; thus saith the Lord of Hosts. Wherefore, this people shall keep my commandments, saith the Lord of Hosts, or cursed be the land for their sakes. For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.
Here the Lord is stressing (I don’t think that’s too strong a word) that monogamy should be the general rule and should be observed at all times except when He specifically commands His people for the purpose of “raising up seed” to Him. In other words, it appears that he commands the practice only at times when a righteous man’s progeny (children dedicated to honoring and serving the Lord) would not increase as quickly as the Lord wishes it to. We believe this to have been the case in the early days of Mormonism. When the Church was founded in 1830, there were just six members. It grew quickly, but the members were persecuted to a degree that the average American is oblivious to. (Did you know, for instance, that ours is the only religion in the United States that has ever had an official "extermination order" issued against it? In fact, it was legal to kill a Mormon anywhere in Missouri until as recently as 1976.) At any rate, hypothetically speaking, if this new church was, in fact, the re-establishment of ancient Christianity as it has always claimed to be, it would have been critical that its numbers increase at least as quickly as possible, so that within even a couple of generations, the likelihood that it disappear altogether would be significantly reduced.
We do believe that in the afterlife, some men will have more than one wife. Obviously, it would be impossible for every man to have at least two wives unless a great many men were to have no wife at all. Since we believe the union between a man and a woman is holy in God's eyes, we also believe He would want every deserving man to have a wife at his side throughout eternity.
Every time I run across something about polygamy, I'm reminded of a Muslim friend I met at Ft. Benning, GA several decades ago.
He was an officer in the Jordanian Army attending Infantry training there and I was there for the U.S. Army Infantry Officer Basic Course. We were housed in the same billets at the old "Quadrangle" area of the post. Just down the hall was a Nigerian officer who was the most ardent Southern Baptist I ever met. Anyhow, we all had more than one really intense and interesting religious dicussion.
One night, the subject of polygamy came up and Mohammad (naturally, that was his given name) allowed as how he couldn't imagine why anyone would want to do that. Under the precepts of Islam, it's allowable, but each and every wife has to be treated EXACTLY the same, in all respects. There can be NO favortism shown in any regard! If one wife has 5 forks in her kitchen drawer, they all must have 5 forks and God help the husband if one of them has 6. If one is "serviced" 4 times a month, they all must be serviced likewise. According to him, it's a mind-boggling web of technicalities which would drive a normal man insane.
I couldn't agree more.
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) of what they saw outside. By the time they're six, they're talking about more involved concepts and principles. It might be something like how we lived with our Father in Heaven before we came to earth (LDS doctrine of the pre-existance of man) and how he gave us the opportunity to come down here to gain a physical body and to learn to have faith in Him and keep His commandments. At all points, the lessons are very low-key and definitely non-threatening. There is virtually no mention of hellfire and damnation. There is only talk of God's love and Jesus Christ's sacrifice and how they can show them they love them, too. By the way, their parents are in classes during this period of time, too, discussing many of the same topics, but in much greater depth. I know most Southern Baptists think we're a cult. It's so hard for me to know if that's a malicious judgment or not, but it really does hurt. I've pretty much learned to ignore it, though.
and Saturday will be my day of rest. 
