"Christ died for our sins" (believe, scriptures, priest)
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1 Corinthians 15:1-3 Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which I bring to you, which
also you accepted, in which also you stand, (2) through which also you are saved, if you are retaining
what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly." (3) For I give over
to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
It is salvific to believe Christ died for the sins of all mankind for if you believe He died for all mankind's sins then you automatically believe your sins are included as well.
But notice Paul did not put a 'Y' in front of "our."
1 Corinthians 15:1-3 Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which I bring to you, which
also you accepted, in which also you stand, (2) through which also you are saved, if you are retaining
what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly." (3) For I give over
to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
It is salvific to believe Christ died for the sins of all mankind for if you believe He died for all mankind's sins then you automatically believe your sins are included as well.
But notice Paul did not put a 'Y' in front of "our."
Quote:
How does he say that we are saved?
I put it in red above.
Believers are being saved through faith.
The rest of mankind come later.
Yeah...well....that doesn't really help much now does it?
Paul says "according to the scriptures" during a time when the Christian Scriptures were still in flux and he had no personal understanding of Jewish scriptures. Later people use Paul to validate their scriptures and the thing just goes in a self-affirming circle. Excuse me but how did Paul know WHAT scriptures said? Even among Jewish scholars only very few had spent enough time reflecting on the few written documents that were available. Really makes me wonder.
Yeah...well....that doesn't really help much now does it?
Paul says "according to the scriptures" during a time when the Christian Scriptures were still in flux and he had no personal understanding of Jewish scriptures. Later people use Paul to validate their scriptures and the thing just goes in a self-affirming circle. Excuse me but how did Paul know WHAT scriptures said? Even among Jewish scholars only very few had spent enough time reflecting on the few written documents that were available. Really makes me wonder.
Glad2, Paul was a Pharisee and knew the Scriptures better than most people. The Greek word behind "according" as "in harmony with." And the Scriptures Paul was talking about that Christ's death was in harmony with the Scriptures were the Old Testament Scriptures. Now you say something derogatory.
Glad2, Paul was a Pharisee and knew the Scriptures better than most people. The Greek word behind "according" as "in harmony with." And the Scriptures Paul was talking about that Christ's death was in harmony with the Scriptures were the Old Testament Scriptures. Now you say something derogatory.
Do you actually READ the Bible? Do you know what position a "pharisee" is? He's a "manager" thats all. They were generally opposed by the Sadducees who tended to represent the entrenched lineage of priests. The Pharisees wanted what we would call today a more "secular"----a more community oriented---take on Jewish Law. Thats why the Pharisees could not judge Jesus by themselves it had to be done in conjunction with the Priest class who knew something about the Law.
Priests would study scripture and damn few of them. If Paul thought that what was happening or had happened was "in harmony with" the Scriptures it was possibly because he may have heard people talking about things to come and drew conclusions for himself about what was "in harmony". In various Religions there is a lot of "stealing" bits that support a position. If Paul were a modern musician he would probably be whats called a "pirate" now...stealing ideas or melodies and pawing them off as his own. Happens all the time.
Now, go pull out Mark and read the part about the Wise Men coming to worship Jesus and stopping at Herod's place first. After the Kings go, Herod doesn't call for a Pharisee to find out about the king in the prophecies, now does he? Ever wonder why? Probably not.
Remember when Jesus was dragged before the Jewish Council? Caiphas was in charge, right? Happen to remember his position?
"Chief High Priest".
Last edited by Glad2bHere!; 12-13-2012 at 12:37 PM..
1 Corinthians 15:1-3 Now I am making known to you, brethren, the evangel which I bring to you, which
also you accepted, in which also you stand, (2) through which also you are saved, if you are retaining
what I said in bringing the evangel to you, outside and except you believe feignedly." (3) For I give over
to you among the first what also I accepted, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,
It is salvific to believe Christ died for the sins of all mankind for if you believe He died for all mankind's sins then you automatically believe your sins are included as well.
But notice Paul did not put a 'Y' in front of "our."
RESPONSE:
Since the Old Testament does not say that Jesus died for our sins and the New Testament hadn't been written yet when Paul wrote Corinthians, which "according to the scriptures" was Paul talking about?
Actually, didn't the "atonement" reason for Christ's execution originate with Paul? It was embarassing to admit that the leader of your sect was executed by the Romans for the crime of insurrection as Jesus was.
Glad2, Paul was a Pharisee and knew the Scriptures better than most people. The Greek word behind "according" as "in harmony with." And the Scriptures Paul was talking about that Christ's death was in harmony with the Scriptures were the Old Testament Scriptures. Now you say something derogatory.
RESPONSE:
Aside from Paul's claim, what evidence do you have that Paul was a Pharisee. He became an agent of the high priest (a Saducee) and was a Roman citizen. What does that suggest?
Since the Old Testament does not say that Jesus died for our sins and the New Testament hadn't been written yet when Paul wrote Corinthians, which "according to the scriptures" was Paul talking about?
Isaiah 53, especially verse 5.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ancient warrior
Actually, didn't the "atonement" reason for Christ's execution originate with Paul? It was embarassing to admit that the leader of your sect was executed by the Romans for the crime of insurrection as Jesus was.
The Apostle John (who walked with Jesus) believed it.
1 John 4:10
10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
The Apostle Peter (who walked with Jesus) believed it.
Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
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