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I am not playing games with you, pcamps. I don't understand your position. There seems to be a conflict with what you are saying but you don't seem to see it. As I shared before, all is out of God as the scriptures state, and I accept this. God also fashioned/created all hearts. All things are in His hands. You don't have to accept this but I do and so do many other believers. We should not be condemned for believing this. God bless and peace.
I am not condemning you for beleving God created evil, I simply refuse to entertain that belief and guard my heart against it. There is no conflict Shana we not God are the cause of evil, and Jesus taught it.
You have the right to your beliefs, pcamps, and I respect your beliefs. I just don't understand them or have to accept them and the same goes for you concerning my beliefs. So here we are again back to agreeing to disagree God bless and peace.
You have the right to your beliefs, pcamps, and I respect your beliefs. I just don't understand them or have to accept them and the same goes for you concerning my beliefs. So here we are again back to agreeing to disagree God bless and peace.
It would be nice to hear from you, why you believe God created the rapist and the child molester instead of just quoting scripture. I believe I have made it perfectly clear why I believe we are the cause of what happens in our individual worlds with scripture to back up what I am saying. You may not understand why I believe we are not separated fom God in anyway but in our minds, which is fair enough, but instead of addressing why you believe God is the cause of all including evil, you have focused on what I said about Jesus Christ being who we are.
The other thing is, in Acts 10:38 it tells us that Jesus went around doing GOOD and healing all who were oppressed by the devil.
Now I know you believe that Jesus is the exact representation of who God is(Heb 1:3)and you also know this is not referring to what he looked like in the flesh. So the only conclusion we can take from this scripture(Heb 1:3)is, God was revealing fully by nature and character how He really is,in,through and by Jesus Christ. To try and understand God through any other means than by the revelation of God through His son is futile.
Isaiah 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.
The will comes into play when God speaks to the heart and says, "Repent and believe the Gospel." ACTS 14:16 "Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways." But now He commands all to repent. God gives the power to change and become the sons of God by His Spirit.
But all do not repent for they love the pleasures of sin rather than righteousness and will not come to the light lest they be reproved for there sin.
MT 22:2-3 "The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, and sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come." He provided the power to repent but would they would not.
And Again,
MT 23:37-39 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that killed the prophets, and stoned them which are sent unto you, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, You shall not see Me henceforth, till you shall say, Blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord."
There is no vaccum in spiritual life as Jesus said, "He that is not for Me is against Me." God who created free will created also the good and the evil but He Himself does no evil and tempts no man to do evil. But for choice do these things exist to walk in and those who refuse the good will walk in evil ways and be judged for there choices because what a man sows that will he reap. If it were not for free will there would be no knowlege of good or evil and no mankind.
GEN 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the Tree of Life, and eat, and live for ever [because the time was not yet but had to eaten of in a particular manner after sin enderd in].:" God who knows good and evil knows how to handle evil but mankind does not. So God provided the salvation of the fruit of the Tree of Life [all that is good] in these last days to overcome the evil.
Shana I believe God is the cause of all Good( the Living Spirit),He is not the cause of the child born with a tumor, heart condition or the child molester,rapist or any other form or apearance of evil(anything else that is not Life). Only Life can Come forth from God.
The universalst argument that God creates good and evil, is a misunderstanding of one scripture. What really disappoints me about most universalists posting on this forum is how you skirt round saying God causes the rapist to rape, the child molester to child molester, that God causes cancer and every awful thing under the sun. Actually I have only know of one universalist that is not ashamed to say that God is the causes of such evil, every other universalist says that God causes it for the greater good.
I believe it is our words that create what is out pictured in our own individual lives, whether it be good or bad. Thought is behind everything, this is why we need to watch what we are thinking and watch what we are listening to. It is why we are to look to Jesus, it is why we are to be renewed in the spirit of our minds, why we are to think upon what is lovely and of a good report,why we are to meditate on His Word(lLife), to think,pray and do unto others as we would have them do to us.
You asked me what was the cause of the child being born in sickness, we are. Our thoughts and words when assumed to be true, are creative.
Camps you are wasting your time brother, many simply cannot see it yet as the god of this world has blinded their eyes. They cannot seem to see things like this
Miami police are still tight-lipped about the man they shot and killed on the MacArthur Causeway Saturday afternoon, but new details back claims they had no choice: the naked man they shot was trying to chew the face off another naked man, and refused to obey police orders to stop his grisly meal, which one source now claims included his victim’s nose and eyeballs.
Are not of God, are not used by God, and have nothing to do with love. Even our natural affection/love tells us what happened here has nothing to do with love, how much more then does it show that the agape love of God has nothing to do with this evil?
They do not seem to understand this scripture
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
Love is the ONLY means God uses for the salvation of man, anything that is not love is not of God.
Many wonder why people cannot believe in the salvation of all, however I no longer wonder why, I know why. It is because of the way it is presented and believed.
The teaching runs thus:
Everything in this world that happens in according to God will.
God uses evil for an unknown good.
Yes they have some scripture that seemingly point this out but they simply do not understand the scriptures that they use. I and others have in many places given an alternate understanding to the scriptures they use, an understanding bases solely on love which expresses the salvation of all through and only through love, yet this understanding has been rejected time and again.
Brother you and I both know that not all things in this world are according to the will of God.
Why is it that not many others see this? One reason is because they believe everything that happens in this life is the will of God, so why bother to ask God what His will is. If evil come to the door it is Gods will, if good comes to the door it is God will, no matter what happens it is God will. Tis a gospel of que sera sera, a gospel of the fates.
Yet if this is so why are we to seek His will in all things?
Is it the will of God that death reigns?
Is it the will of God that sin is unrepented of?
Is it the will of God that evil befalls man?
Is it the will of God that man is disobedient?
If I am the architect of a house and send another to build the house to the plans I have made I am still the architect of what is built. Without me the house would not have been built.
Yet Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil.
If God is the cause of all the evils in this world and Jesus went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed is not Jesus doing something against the will of God?
Do we not read in scripture that a kingdom divided cannot stand?
If Jesus is doing something against the will of God how can His kingdom stand?
Did Jesus not always do the will of the Father? If so then can we not see that doing good and healing all who are oppressed is the will of the Father? And as these things Jesus did is the will of the Father should it not be easy to understand that anything contrary to what Jesus did is NOT the will of the Father.
Many simply refuse to seek the Father's will because they believe everything that happens to them is the Fathers will. Yet God is crying out the fields are ready but the labourers are few.
We are not the cause of all things that happen in our world. If someone is sitting in his or her home and is attacked by an intruder, we are not the cause of this. If someone suddenly crosses the centerline and crashes into me, I am not the cause of this.
John 9 As He passed by, He saw a man blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, “ Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” 3 Jesus answered, “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents; but it was so that the works of God might be displayed in him.
Shana ever heard of a hina clause? Hina can be translated as a purpose or a command.
If you use a command clause for hina in that scripture it changes the meaning.
Translation are suppose to be made in connection with the surrounding scriptures not on the basis of a bias towards what one believes.
In fairness to the translators it was believed that hina was always used to express a purpose but today we know that is not the case. It can also be used to express a command.
When we take in the surrounding scriptures it is clear that hina here should have been translated as a command and not a purpose.
The Jews had just finished saying Jesus had a devil. Then we see the disciples asking Jesus why the man was born blind. Did he sin or did his parents sin? Jesus answered and said neither.
That neither was the answer to their question.
What then transpired was Jesus giving a command that the works of God be displayed through the healing of the blind man.
It should have been translated something like this
And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. 2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: Let the works of God be made manifest in him.
Jesus then goes on to say
I must work the works of him that sent me
What is the purpose for Jesus coming? It was so that He might destroy the works of the devil.
Now remember the Jews had just finished accusing Jesus of having a devil and if you read the rest of the story. Even though Jesus did the works of God (destroying the works of the devil i.e. The mans blindness) they refused to believe on Him.
Basically sis what Jesus was saying neither this man or his parents sinned was the cause of the man blindness, now stand still and see the salvation of God. And He opened the eyes of the blind man.
No disrespect to those who do not believe in free will pnuema, but I think you are right I am wasting my time. It is a deep seated doctrine, that blames God on the one hand, and excuses Him on the other. If you took all the scriptures out of the bible that referred to choice you can still prove that each individual is responsible for their own actions.
Take for instance the commandment to honor our Father and Mother, if we do not honor them, is that God causing us not to honor them in the mind of those who do not believe in free will ?
Just as in the mind of the orthodox Fundamentalsts the bottom falls out of their belief if there is no eternal torment, the mindset is the same in many a universalst if we have free will( in their mind UR does not work if we have free will).
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God bless and peace.
