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Don't you see anything wrong with this kind of thinking?
I see this brought up all the time against other beliefs. Its like a license to sin.
And what about this? 1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
I would agree that would be the danger for some people, they would use it as a license.
Which is why Paul exhorts....
"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."
I continually bring it up because people like yourself. It's the truth to you as long as the scriptures are broken up then reassembled contexts to have God saying 1\2 of what he actually spoke. Jesus spoke those other verses. Because of that, eternal security must be understood correctly when it doesn't break other scripture truths.
So now you just reassemble what you stated before in order to hide the fact that you are flat wrong in what you said.
You stated that I would think it is a lie until I seen that it was the truth. You are a liar, I stated without any hesitation that John 3:36 is as true as any other verse in the bible.
Your assertion of reassembled context is a laugh out Loud moment, you have no idea what your talking about.
I have also not stated that God is 1/2 of what he actually spoke.
He spoke that His wrath will remain upon a person and I explained that indeed it did on me, so you simply are now intentionally misrepresenting what I say in order to try to make your argument against me sound and it is not and I have factually demonstrated it while you play subterfuge.
I would agree that would be the danger for some people, they would use it as a license.
Which is why Paul exhorts....
"If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."
So now you just reassemble what you stated before in order to hide the fact that you are flat wrong in what you said.
You stated that I would think it is a lie until I seen that it was the truth. You are a liar, I stated without any hesitation that John 3:36 is as true as any other verse in the bible.
Your assertion of reassembled context is a laugh out Loud moment, you have no idea what your talking about.
I have also not stated that God is 1/2 of what he actually spoke.
He spoke that His wrath will remain upon a person and I explained that indeed it did on me, so you simply are now intentionally misrepresenting what I say in order to try to make your argument against me sound and it is not and I have factually demonstrated it while you play subterfuge.
John 10:27-29 is the truth as long as it's taken into context that doesn't break other scriptures..like John 3:36 and others mentioned.
Since this is about eternal security that is the context in which I'm speaking to.
This can only be sated as the truth if one applies 1/2 of what God says throughout all scriptures....
"losing faith has nothing to do with losing salvation or causing God to somehow not be able to keep his promise of assurance for mankind."
You are again accusing God of wrong doing by innuendo
Jesus spoke Matthew 13:19-22 (and other scriptures)
John 3:36 (and other scriptures) can not be broken in order to make a theologly plausible
Its an attack upon the Redemptive work of Christ !
. . .
There is absolutely no end to the redeeming effects of the Blood of Christ for His People He died for.
Now, to those who deny and reject this Truth, you deny and reject the Perfection of the Redemptive work of Christ, which is nothing short of Blasphemy !
Oh the irony . . . you decry the rejection of perfection in the very same post you deny the perfection by LIMITING the redemption to you and your special people.
No it's Biblical, Jesus Himself said so in John 10 27-29 and 1 John 5:13 says we can KNOW we have eternal life. If we could lose our salvation, Jesus would take us to Heaven to moment got saved. God sent Jesus to spare us from death and if the blood of Jesus isn't enough to cover us, what is????
It isn't Biblical at all.
John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Jesus said His sheep follow Him. If a saved person returns to his sins, even one willful sin, then he is no longer following Jesus; he's gone astray.
John 10:27-29 is the truth as long as it's taken into context that doesn't break other scriptures..like John 3:36 and others mentioned.
Your error is that of personal assumption. You stand making the assumption that the context you agree with is inherantly what is correct, so when I post a verse and it breaks your context, you make the assertion that I have taken a verse out of it's context.
In the context that Gods character is absolutely corrective in nature none of my beliefs about every scripture are out of context. By the same token, what many do not believe is that is exactly how what you believe and everyone else believes is formulated.
This is why arguments of context are for the most part moot because few really know what "in context" actually means.
I promote what I believe in the context I see Gods character, you can disagree that how I see Gods character is correct, but you will never make the case that I have taken a verse out of context, because every verse I explain is entirely in context.
Quote:
This can only be sated as the truth if one applies 1/2 of what God says throughout all scriptures....
The only way you can make the case that I apply 1/2 of what Gods says is by proving that I inherantly put aside scripture and ignore it. You will fail in every attempt and you will have to resort to telling a lie to do so.
Quote:
"losing faith has nothing to do with losing salvation or causing God to somehow not be able to keep his promise of assurance for mankind."
You are again accusing God of wrong doing by innuendo
You are again accusing God of wrong doing by innuendo
Jesus spoke Matthew 13:19-22 (and other scriptures)
John 3:36 (and other scriptures) can not be broken in order to make a theologly plausible
1. Unless I state that I am accusing God of something you have no call to make that accusation of me. You again stand with an assumption error, you assume that what you believe is the same as being God, so when I disagree with you, you stand in arrogance and accusation that I have accused God. That is far from the truth, I have made a statement based on what I believe in context with the nature of Gods character that I see.
2. Jesus continually reminded us that we reap what we sow, he reminded us that simply because we can look to the assurance of the almighty does not take away our free will to do wrong and be deceived and live a life of misery. You use inuenndo to say that is about losing the assurance of Gods promise to save mankind when by the very nature of scripture is says nothing like that at all. Talk about broken scripture.
1 Timothy 2:4 states that God has determined that all mankind be saved, the definition of thelo is clear that it is a determinate context not a passive wish. To say then that the passage in matthew which is a parable says that mankind can lose that assurance is indeed breaking the scripture and the only way to claim context is to ignore the definition of thelo, many do, that is why Strongs had to qualify the definition making sure it is explained.
3. I am not breaking it, I am giving my belief of what it means based on the context I believe. While you won't admit it, that is exactly what you do when you give an explaination of a verse. And quite frankly there is nothing wrong with that, EVERY ones belief is derived the same way, whether they formulate conclusions or whether they simply sit in church or read a boopk or read commentaries and agree, it all comes down to the same thing.
There really is no other way besides context to derive what scripture means simply because ALL conversation, ALL discussion ALL literature is interpreted based upon the usage and context of words. So please stop trying to think that what you believe is the truth has any more significance than any one elses.
All of scriptures define God's position on any topic. This one happens to be on eternal security.
Eternal security needs to be understood with the balance of other truths spoken by God, hence the fundamental concept that context of a certain passage must adhere to any held belief..... "the Scripture cannot be broken"
John 10:27-29 is the truth as long as it's taken into context that doesn't break other scriptures.
I replied to this post before but apparently someone didn't like it so let me try again. Please prove that the verse in question is talking about eternal security. You're reaching and you know it.
That True Believers can loose their Salvation is one of the most God and Christ dishonoring doctrines that a man can utter ! Its nothing less than taking a shot at and discrediting the very Power of God [Blasphemy] which is keeping the Believer through Faith unto that Salvation that is ready to be revealed 1 Pet 1:5
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Now I am not referring to every false believer, but to all those believers in Christ who hath been begotten again unto a lively hope [Faith] by [not their freewill] the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
These have been begotten again ! Now this word begotten ins the greek word anagennao:
to produce again, be born again, born anew
metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God
It is those who have been produced again, born anew. It also means to have been given one a Change of Mind, which is Repentance. The greek word used for Repentance is metanoia and means:
a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done
So we can now see from scripture that a Change of Mind, Repentance is an effect of having been begotten again by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, it cannot be made any plainer.
The word for begotten again is also translated born again in 1 Pet 1:23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Now these born again ones are being kept by the power of God through Faith ! And for what purpose are they being kept ? Unto Salvation ready to be revealed.
Should a believer walk with the idea of eternal security or walk with the notion of not being eternally secure. Scripture suggests the latter.
Simply put, practicing sin is very dangerous.
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Romans 6:1-3 KJV
"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:15-16 KJV
There are literally thousands of passages that display this.
I think preachers have their priorities out of order. We like to preach grace and eternal security. What we need to preach is sanctification and the blood of the cross.
We are to possess our bodies as a vessel of honor to God. We simply can't do this with sin in our lives. Sanctification of our bodies through living righteous lives crucifying the flesh which is at enmity with God should be the message.
Church should be a spiritual meeting ground in which believers are regenerated in their spirit to do God's will. An educational and motivational meeting while praising God while focusing on the scriptures.
Absolutely epic performance led by the spirit by a servant of the most high.
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