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God must hate an awful lot of His children for no good reason. Why do you think He'd condemn people who never even had a chance? I'm just trying to get my mind around this concept.
Every one of us have willfully and habitually offended the infinite, almighty God. The fact that you can't seem to understand this is what's keeping you from realizing that the Gospel is such great news.
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Originally Posted by Katzpur
And this particular thread is about the millions who never heard of Christ. What about them?
Well...if by default everyone is destined for hell...and those that have Christ don't go there, but go to heaven instead...what does that tell you?
God is extremely merciful by saving some of us. You can be among those if you trust Christ, too. Moderator cut: off topic
Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-07-2011 at 05:43 PM..
Reason: does not address the op
Every one of us have willfully and habitually offended the infinite, almighty God. The fact that you can't seem to understand this is what's keeping you from realizing that the Gospel is such great news.
Theo, in the real world, there are people who have lived their entire lives without ever hearing the Gospel. This thread is about them. It's not about me. I've already heard the Gospel and accepted it.
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Well...if by default everyone is destined for hell...and those that have Christ don't go there, but go to heaven instead...what does that tell you?
It tells me that God must not be very loving after all. After all, if He truly wanted all of us to return to Him, He wouldn't have provided a way for some of us to do so and simply ignored billions of others.
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God is extremely merciful by saving some of us. You can be among those if you trust Christ, too.
I realize that. I just believe He is a whole lot more merciful, loving, and compassionate than you do.
Moderator cut: orphaned
Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-07-2011 at 05:43 PM..
And this particular thread is about the millions who never heard of Christ. What about them?
This is the stumbling block traditional belief systems have created that does NOT actually exist. Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit is available to us ALL within our consciousness to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts." Whether or not we have heard of Christ . . . His Holy Spirit is there within our consciousness. It is a matter of Physics . . . not intellectual acknowledgment. When we respond out of agape Love . . . we are listening to His Holy Spirit . . . whatever we do or do not know or think or claim to believe. Belief is NOT an intellectual choice . . . it is an inner reality (or not).
This is the stumbling block traditional belief systems have created that does NOT actually exist. Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit is available to us ALL within our consciousness to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts." Whether or not we have heard of Christ . . . His Holy Spirit is there within our consciousness. It is a matter of Physics . . . not intellectual acknowledgment. When we respond out of agape Love . . . we are listening to His Holy Spirit . . . whatever we do or do not know or think or claim to believe. Belief is NOT an intellectual choice . . . it is an inner reality (or not).
Well, I've got to say I prefer your perspective to the perspective of most of the folks who have participated on this thread so far, Mystic. But I can't say I totally agree with you. Jesus Christ taught a Gospel that He told His Apostles to share with all nations. Apparently He thought it was important that people actually hear what His message was. I agree that it is entirely possible for the Spirit to touch someone's heart and prompt them to be loving, compassionate, and merciful, but I don't believe this is the same thing as people coming to acknowledge that they have sinned and are in need of a Savior. And if they have never heard of Jesus Christ, they are going to have no idea that He atoned for their sins.
Well, I've got to say I prefer your perspective to the perspective of most of the folks who have participated on this thread so far, Mystic. But I can't say I totally agree with you. Jesus Christ taught a Gospel that He told His Apostles to share with all nations. Apparently He thought it was important that people actually hear what His message was. I agree that it is entirely possible for the Spirit to touch someone's heart and prompt them to be loving, compassionate, and merciful, but I don't believe this is the same thing as people coming to acknowledge that they have sinned and are in need of a Savior. And if they have never heard of Jesus Christ, they are going to have no idea that He atoned for their sins.
I think people misunderstand that Jesus' focus was on the Jews under the Law. Those Gentiles not under the Law didn't really have to hear anything they were simply affected as a result. Thats my understanding anyway.
I think people misunderstand that Jesus' focus was on the Jews under the Law. Those Gentiles not under the Law didn't really have to hear anything they were simply affected as a result. Thats my understanding anyway.
Abraham, who lived prior to the Law so was not a Jew, was declared righteous by faith alone. The apostle Paul expounds on that in Romans by stating that Abraham was not just the father of the Jews, but of the Gentiles also--the faithful people from both, regardless of their ethnicity.
Actually, Jesus did preach to Gentiles. He healed a Centurion's servant.
Also when a Gentile woman approached him to have demons cast out of her children, his response was that he came for the Jews only. After reasoning with him, he healed her child of the demons.
Later, in Acts, Peter was given a vision that told him to go preach the Gospel to the Gentiles as well. Paul, the apostle to the Gentile, originally preached to the Jews...but when the Gospel was rejected by them he went to the Gentiles.
I would not disagree that from a logical view point that would be correct...however God doesn't need human logic or approval to show mercy to whomever.
I am not raising the point that he needs our approval, he doesn't need your approval to save all of mankind either.
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This whole topic is premised on that certian people have a problem with God. They reject that anyone who does not have faith are held accountable for their unbelief.
That may be, but that doesn't change the premise of the doctrine. An unborn baby that dies is a human that died without faith in Jesus Christ.
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This baby issue is nothing more than a cover-up to the distain that God would have the gall. Since "fairness" is being determined by human logic, that logic claims that God isn't being fair if one group is damned while the other isn't.
Well ... , God isn't fair.
Irrelevant to the issue. Perhaps it is a cover up, perhaps people would think it is unfair that God damn the unborn to hell, that doesn't change that according to the supposed scriptural truth, that is exactly what the implication is. The problem is that those who teach this nonsense can't face their own doctrine, embrace it and announce that it is fair and just. Perhaps people do use that argument as an emotional ploy, does that change the reality of it. However, in these types of matters it is entirely reasonable that this issue be raised and dealt with.
It is a fact that an unborn baby that dies is a human that has died without hearing the gospel. If it is written that all humans who die without hearing the gospel of Jesus Christ are damned to hell for eternity, it includes them. Face your own doctrine, it is irrelevant to make this about others who disagree with it.
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"He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he."
Then it should be no problem for you to admit that the unborn are damned to hell based upon the tenants of what you believe. It is just and right according to you, so admit it.
Why dd He provide a way, if there were other ways?
He provided the ONLY way . . . because it became part of the Physics governing the lives of us ALL, Finn . . . that is why there is no need for other ways. Thinking God would rely on the intellectual acknowledgment of humans is silly. He knows how unreliable and capricious that is. Making the Holy Spirit a part of the Physics that govern our lives (like gravity) is the only way to insure that every single human being on earth had access to the guidance of Christ and the opportunity to accept it ("believe ON") . . . wherever they were and whatever they thought or believed.
He provided the ONLY way . . . because it became part of the Physics governing the lives of us ALL, Finn . . . that is why there is no need for other ways. Thinking God would rely on the intellectual acknowledgment of humans is silly. He knows how unreliable and capricious that is. Making the Holy Spirit a part of the Physics that govern our lives (like gravity) is the only way to insure that every single human being on earth had access to the guidance of Christ and the opportunity to accept it ("believe ON") . . . wherever they were and whatever they thought or believed.
You are basically saying all paths lead to salvation, but that is certainly not what Jesus taught.
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, God isn't fair.
