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I see many folk here who don't like how God is portrayed in the OT. Practically all of Christian denominations, all 30,000 of them view the OT as true. The Jews (of which I am/was one) see the OT as true.
Jesus referenced the OT.
IMO not liking how God acted in the OT is your choice, but this is God. God who created all. As for me, I submit to God, regardless. I don't have to agree with how God choses to do stuff.
We are all given the choice to follow God. My decision is yes and I am not about to tell God how to run things.
So I ask those who think otherwise to explain how they think they can tell God how He should act and yet feel they can be right with the One who created all.
I am curious how this sort of theology works.
Is it about "how god ran things" or how ignorant, superstitious men interpreted how they thought he ran things? I mean, who was the fly on the wall watching Onan having sex when god [allegedly] struck him dead? Did Tamar run out of her tent and told the whole town how god smacked Onan dead for "pulling out" and ejaculating on the floor? Did god call some scribe over and told him what went down? Ooorrrrrrrr did dude drop dead while having sex and someone INTERPRETED the suddenness of his death as a visitation of judgment from god? Perhaps the story was just made up to make sure social mores were upheld.
What about Abraham? The guy never wrote a book we know about but who was around to corroborate all these conversations he was having with god, the promises, the negotiations about Sodom and Gommorrah and so on? What about Moses and all of his "thus sayeth the Lord" or "the lord commanded Moses to...?" Who heard the voices these men were hearing in their heads (if the stories are even true)?
So again, was it god behaving badly or men, lost in superstition and fear who believed AND taught others that god did this and god did that?
Is it about "how god ran things" or how ignorant, superstitious men interpreted how they thought he ran things? I mean, who was the fly on the wall watching Onan having sex when god [allegedly] struck him dead? Did Tamar run out of her tent and told the whole town how god smacked Onan dead for "pulling out" and ejaculating on the floor? Did god call some scribe over and told him what went down? Ooorrrrrrrr did dude drop dead while having sex and someone INTERPRETED the suddenness of his death as a visitation of judgment from god? Perhaps the story was just made up to make sure social mores were upheld.
What about Abraham? The guy never wrote a book we know about but who was around to corroborate all these conversations he was having with god, the promises, the negotiations about Sodom and Gommorrah and so on? What about Moses and all of his "thus sayeth the Lord" or "the lord commanded Moses to...?" Who heard the voices these men were hearing in their heads (if the stories are even true)?
So again, was it god behaving badly or men, lost in superstition and fear who believed AND taught others that god did this and god did that?
Yep, and they also have recorded having been told by God to do all manner of stuff that is in direct violation of the 10 commandments. So I'm supposed to believe that Jehovah was telling his people to break the commandments, go out and slaughter everyone - etc. Sorry, I don't buy it. There is obviously something seriously weird going on in that OT. As a believer in Jesus Christ, I must reject the opposing image of God presented in the OT.
The scriptures say "Thou shalt not kill," which is from a Hebrew word that means "to murder." That is, to kill without cause or justification.
Since God can do no injustice, doesn't it seem logical that if God told them to do it, it must be just and therefore not murder and no violation of the Commandments?
Unless, of course, you think soldiers who kill during war are murderer's too. It's the same principle. There are justified killings and unjustified killings. Therein lies the intent of the Commandments.
The scriptures say "Thou shalt not kill," which is from a Hebrew word that means "to murder." That is, to kill without cause or justification.
Since God can do no injustice, doesn't it seem logical that if God told them to do it, it must be just and therefore not murder and no violation of the Commandments?
Unless, of course, you think soldiers who kill during war are murderer's too. It's the same principle. There are justified killings and unjustified killings. Therein lies the intent of the Commandments.
You mean in the same way that God told George W. Bush to go into Iraq and slaughter millions? Or in the way God told our leaders to starve the children in Iran and help the Israeli's kill the Palestinians? Do you mean the way God tells church people that he wants them to have the best "things" because they're King's kids, and to hell with the homeless and unemployed and the elderly and those without health care. Is it that "Christian" God you're referring to -- the one who is just like the old Jehovah God in the OT ? If the true God can do no injustice, then it is not the true God doing the injustices that are done. People can claim that God told them to do it, but that doesn't mean they were hearing from the true God. I think there's a lot of people who mistake the voice of a "stranger" for the voice of the Holy Spirit. Jesus said be careful how you hear.
I can quite clearly picture someone saying that its the 21st century and that its their constitutional right to tell God how to do things. Then theyll call the ACLU
I can quite clearly picture someone saying that its the 21st century and that its their constitutional right to tell God how to do things. Then theyll call the ACLU
I'd trust the constitution more than any God, honestly. At least the constitution was written to try to balance power among the many; a God would have free reign to just be a jerk. Give me the constitution any day!
Yes, the OT is cited whenever someone is trying to justify something the appears unjust. It's sad that Christianity has reverted to what looks more and more like sacrificial Judaism. Where god is a monster that requires appeasement.
That's incorrect, all of it. After Jesus was crucified, the old sacrificial ways became obsolete. Men no longer had to slaughter animals to atone for their sins. After Jesus, the debt was paid in full. No more blood sacrifice, ever again.
Good point with Buddhism not having a God. It does, however, make other supernatural claims that fall outside the purview of atheism.
Again, atheism has no supernatural claims, and thus isn't a religion. There may be atheist groups that have the "trappings" of a group setting, but to claim that atheists are just as religious as theists is to show, again, that you do not care what words mean, and don't care to learn what words mean.
And your group believes in the miracles of abiogenesis and evolution. Yay for atheism....Moderator cut: edit for sarcasm.
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What you're actually observing is the natural inclination to form groups and be with like minded people - but that has nothing to do with religion. Again, by your definition, the Republican Party, Greenpeace and The Boy Scouts of America are all religions.
Those groups have no real official stances on how the universe came about, or the existence of a higher power. There is a lot about those groups that would not be in agreement to the list I posted. It's certainly possible to be an atheist and hold to any of those groups...they are not exclusive.
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Edit: This is now painfully off topic, so I won't be responding to this line of conversation again, so as to help get this back on topic. If you really want to continue the argument that the Boy Scouts of America is a religion, we can probably do so in a new thread.
Of course it's on topic. it's all about how you guys reject God for your own religion instead.
Moderator cut: edit. Decision made by owner of website.
And your group believes in the miracles of abiogenesis and evolution. Yay for atheism....weeeeeeeeeee
Atheism is not a belief in evolution or abiogenesis. Learn what words mean.
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Those groups have no real official stances on how the universe came about, or the existence of a higher power.
True, but they have all the "trappings" you mentioned. And because you've chosen to redefine the meaning of the word "religion" to mean "a congregation of people with similar beliefs," then you have to include these groups too. Of course, that's not what religion means, but you don't know that, because you don't know the meanings of words.
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Of course it's on topic. it's all about how you guys reject God for your own religion instead.
I'll let the mods decide if this has been on or off topic. I still say it's off, because this a discussion of basic word meanings, not whether one would reject God for being a jerk.
Edit: and I've done no proselytizing. All I've done is discuss whether I personally would reject God and point out basic definitions of words to you. Again, please, for the love of your Christ, learn what words mean before using them.
Atheism is not a belief in evolution or abiogenesis. Learn what words mean.
Do you have an explanation for how life came about then?
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True, but they have all the "trappings" you mentioned. And because you've chosen to redefine the meaning of the word "religion" to mean "a congregation of people with similar beliefs," then you have to include these groups too. Of course, that's not what religion means, but you don't know that, because you don't know the meanings of words.
I'll let the mods decide if this has been on or off topic. I still say it's off, because this a discussion of basic word meanings, not whether one would reject God for being a jerk.
I say you reject God in lieu of your own religion. That isn't on topic? Besides...you come into our forum and then you whine when you get called on it? Seriously?
Weak.
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Edit: and I've done no proselytizing. All I've done is discuss whether I personally would reject God and point out basic definitions of words to you. Again, please, for the love of your Christ, learn what words mean before using them.
You seem to be rather outspoken about the superiority of your religion to our's. Seems like proseletyzing to me....
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