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So God supported genocide. Do you realize that included children?
I don't believe for one instant that God is cruel and violent. This writing is evil and God cannot be evil. The violence and murder of children proves that this is not God breathed.
Just because you don't like it does not mean God did not do it or write.
Just because you don't like it does not mean God did not do it or write.
It is directly opposed to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Therein lies your problem. Also, in the OT God says certain things NEVER ENTERED HIS MIND that they wrote down saying God had commanded them to do. So there is someone lying in the OT. Or do you just ignore this because that is the only way you have of dealing with the problem? Or worse, you choose the wrong image to believe about God.
Just because you don't like it does not mean God did not do it or write.
Just because I don't like it??????????????????????
We are talking about genocide and the killing of women, children, and infants. That is wrong during any era. Only the Nazis did stuff like that and it seems they were less violent.
There is a very powerful philosophical point here. God cannot be cruel, jealous, petty, and violent. You are giving God extremely awful bad human traits. God cannot be imperfect and cannot behave like men that seek revenge.
Quote:
Why does the Psalmist speak about killing children?
"How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones against the rock," (Psalm 137:9).
Psalms were songs in the synagogue. In the Catholic church we still sing psalms during mass. However, we never sing psalm 137. I wonder why.
Here is another passage that shows the Bible cannot be the word of God:
Judges 19: 22-23
Quote:
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”
23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”
These men want to rape the men that are guests in the house. Instead the owner of the house tells them the men can rape his virgin daughter as well as the concubine of his guest. Can this evil act be the word of God? I don't think so.
This is a discussion ender, Verna . . . It says essentially "God Did It" nana, nana, nana, nana. I am . . . but so are you! Pppplllbbbbbtttttt!
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Originally Posted by cledussnow
I disagree.
She is comfortable with the Word that she has.
I think God is also fine with that.
If we can show evidence (which has not yet been provided), maybe some will view things differently.
It is also OK if they do not.
My purpose is NOT to cast aspersion on anyone's beliefs. It is simply to learn.
If someone's views appear to be less open than you would prefer, feel free to not address them. It is of no value to anyone.
Let's try to focus on those things we DO agree on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I agree . . . that would be the reason for the Smiley, cledus. Verna and I go back a long way. We know we are both sincere in our love of God . . . we just disagree on the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cledussnow
Fair enough! I am truly glad for that.
I just am super conservative concerning respect for others in this thread.
It is true cledussnow that Mystic and I have become two that can respect one another's beliefs...however different they are. I do however appreciate your premise though...that this thread be different...one unlike all the others...it would be a wonderful thing to just not post anything at all unless it seriously attends to the the topic at hand...leaving the sarcasm out of the discussion...revolutionary ! ! !
Love you Mystic......always...
...and I appreciate your thoughtfulness...and this thread cledussnow.
Here is another passage that shows the Bible cannot be the word of God:
Judges 19: 22-23
These men want to rape the men that are guests in the house. Instead the owner of the house tells them the men can rape his virgin daughter as well as the concubine of his guest. Can this evil act be the word of God? I don't think so.
Patriarchy and domination of women via religion in all its ugliness, for sure. I think the battle started with the dividing of Eve from Adam. There are two gods speaking in the book of Genesis as well as throughout the Old Testament.
Just because I don't like it??????????????????????
We are talking about genocide and the killing of women, children, and infants. That is wrong during any era. Only the Nazis did stuff like that and it seems they were less violent.
There is a very powerful philosophical point here. God cannot be cruel, jealous, petty, and violent. You are giving God extremely awful bad human traits. God cannot be imperfect and cannot behave like men that seek revenge.
Psalms were songs in the synagogue. In the Catholic church we still sing psalms during mass. However, we never sing psalm 137. I wonder why.
Can you think of anything more violent and cruel?
Not that I have any plans on converting to Marcionism, but it is precisely this kind of observation that led Marcion to determine that the god of the OT was irreconcilable to the God of the NT. Marcion was the first to establish a canon of authoritative writings, which excluded all of the OT and most of the NT. He included Luke, a few of the letters of Paul. No Revelation, no synoptics, not much at all. (Perhaps he was unaware of many of the other writings circulating at the time?)
Yet Marcionites were persecuted and martyred alongside those whom we might call orthodox Christians, their faith was so strong.
Is "the Bible" "inspired" (as in God told each author of the many canonical books each and every word to write)? That is a matter of perception and faith, something for each of us to embrace or dispute.
I myself believe that the bible is not some giant puzzle from which we are to discover secret and hidden truths. I believe the wisdom is plain and there for all to see.
I suppose that means I do not think of the bible as "inspired" in the manner that many Christians do. That said, I do not doubt the message of Jesus. and that is all that matters to me.
I say lets get rid of the OT. It should not be in the Christian Bible. At best it should be used a historical book. It is time to bring back God to the 21st century.
BTW, why was Genesis edited to add a creation with a sabbath?
Genesis was already written when the concept of the sabbath was developed. So the Jews went back and re-edited genesis to include the sabbath. They also made a mistake and included two different ways to create Eve.
If the bible is the word of God it should not need editing.
Not that I have any plans on converting to Marcionism, but it is precisely this kind of observation that led Marcion to determine that the god of the OT was irreconcilable to the God of the NT. Marcion was the first to establish a canon of authoritative writings, which excluded all of the OT and most of the NT. He included Luke, a few of the letters of Paul. No Revelation, no synoptics, not much at all. (Perhaps he was unaware of many of the other writings circulating at the time?)
Yet Marcionites were persecuted and martyred alongside those whom we might call orthodox Christians, their faith was so strong.
Is "the Bible" "inspired" (as in God told each author of the many canonical books each and every word to write)? That is a matter of perception and faith, something for each of us to embrace or dispute.
I myself believe that the bible is not some giant puzzle from which we are to discover secret and hidden truths. I believe the wisdom is plain and there for all to see.
I suppose that means I do not think of the bible as "inspired" in the manner that many Christians do. That said, I do not doubt the message of Jesus. and that is all that matters to me.
Nothing wrong with Marcionism, but religious folks tend to cling to the old belief system even if it does not make sense.
The Amalekites were a band of guerrilla terrorist. They lived by attacking other nations and carrying off their wealth and families. They were the first to attack the Israelites as they entered the Promised Land, and they continued to raid Israelite camps at every opportunity. God knew the Israelites could never live in peacefully in the Promised Land as long as the Amalekites existed. He also knew that their corrupt idolatrous religious practices threatened Israel's relationship with Him. The only way to protect the Israelites was to utterly destroy the people of this warlike nation and all their possessions, including their idols.
That's right ILNC. As recorded in Exodus 17:8-16 Amalek fought against Israel at Rephidim. The Amalekites continued to harass Israel as seen in Num 14:45; Judges 6:33; 1 Sam 14:48, 15:7 and 27:8 until they were finally destroyed by King David (1 Sam 30).
God destroyed Israel's enemies both to protect Israel and to punish the evil nations (Deut 7:22-26).
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