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can the clay do anything without the potter moving it?
Can it become something on its own?
YES, the potter responds to the movement of the clay
Jeremiah 18:1-17
The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter:
A funny thing about clay is that it has a memory of its own and always wants to return to its clay form. So when one is fashioning a vase the clay tries to fall back into its natural form. Thus being marred in the hands of the potter. It is NOT the potter who mars the clay in his hands, it is the clay trying to return to clay that mars itself. The potter wants to make a vase, the clay wants to return to its natural form.
So if we look at man who is formed from the dust of the earth and placed into the garden to be fashioned into Gods image and likeness, we can see the clay in the potters hands.
Now through mans own disobedience man marred himself in the potters hands and returned to the dust/clay from whence he was taken. Dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return.
Now lets look at those same scriptures out of the Septuagint.
18:1 The word that came from the Lord to 2 Jeremias, saying, Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there thou shalt hear my words. 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and behold, he was making a vessel on the stones. 4 And the vessel which he was making with his hands fell:
And we know that Adam fell by disobedience. Thus the potter did NOT mar the vessel
the vessel fell and marred itself.
so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Thus the potter takes up the same clay and makes a NEW vessel out of it.
We are a NEW creation in Christ Jesus.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
Does nor matter how many time the clay falls from the masters hand, God will keep moulding the clay until it is fashion after His will, and once fashioned after His will the vessel is put into the fire to keep it from ever returning to its old form .
Thus proving that all vessels pass through the fire, for without the baking process the vessel will always retain it’s own will and turn to it’s old form.
Septuagint
16 Behold, I have created thee, not as the coppersmith blowing coals, and bringing out a vessel fit for work; but I have created thee, not for ruin, that I should destroy thee. 17 I will not suffer any weapon formed against thee to prosper; and every voice that shall rise up against thee for judgment, thou shalt vanquish them all; and thine adversaries shall be condemned thereby. There is an inheritance to them that serve the Lord, and ye shall be righteous before me, saith the Lord.
This is why I asked you all to put aside your own thoughts and let us just stick to what the word says. Please let us just try doing that? Just this one time guys! Please, pretty please
I am sticking to what the scriptures state, we just have a different idea of what they are actually saying.
YES, the potter responds to the movement of the clay
Jeremiah 18:1-17
The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying, 2 Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words. 3 Then I went down to the potter’s house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. 4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter:
A funny thing about clay is that it has a memory of its own and always wants to return to its clay form. So when one is fashioning a vase the clay tries to fall back into its natural form. Thus being marred in the hands of the potter. It is NOT the potter who mars the clay in his hands, it is the clay trying to return to clay that mars itself. The potter wants to make a vase, the clay wants to return to its natural form.
So if we look at man who is formed from the dust of the earth and placed into the garden to be fashioned into Gods image and likeness, we can see the clay in the potters hands.
Now through mans own disobedience man marred himself in the potters hands and returned to the dust/clay from whence he was taken. Dust thou art and unto dust shalt thou return.
Now lets look at those same scriptures out of the Septuagint.
18:1 The word that came from the Lord to 2 Jeremias, saying, Arise, and go down to the potter’s house, and there thou shalt hear my words. 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and behold, he was making a vessel on the stones. 4 And the vessel which he was making with his hands fell:
And we know that Adam fell by disobedience. Thus the potter did NOT mar the vessel
the vessel fell and marred itself.
so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
Thus the potter takes up the same clay and makes a NEW vessel out of it.
We are a NEW creation in Christ Jesus.
5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter’s hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
Does nor matter how many time the clay falls from the masters hand, God will keep moulding the clay until it is fashion after His will, and once fashioned after His will the vessel is put into the fire to keep it from ever returning to its old form .
Thus proving that all vessels pass through the fire, for without the baking process the vessel will always retain it’s own will and turn to it’s old form.
Septuagint
16 Behold, I have created thee, not as the coppersmith blowing coals, and bringing out a vessel fit for work; but I have created thee, not for ruin, that I should destroy thee. 17 I will not suffer any weapon formed against thee to prosper; and every voice that shall rise up against thee for judgment, thou shalt vanquish them all; and thine adversaries shall be condemned thereby. There is an inheritance to them that serve the Lord, and ye shall be righteous before me, saith the Lord.
We are NOT CREATED FOR RUIN.
pretend for a moment that you are making a jar....have you ever done that?
you take a lump of clay...the clay cannot move on its own. You being the potter has to mold it the way you want it to look. the clay does not move on its own. please think it through
I think it is pointless to argue too, but the Bible says "come and let us reason together..."? How else does one seek? How else is truth to be determined and settled? ...except through going "back and forth"? My point is to determine truth u have to hear what the other guy is saying. And you have to know the truth u believe. The Bible says to study to show yourself approved so u are prepared to give an answer for your faith... And so you will not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.
For example I am not mormon, nor am a Jehovah's witness; however, I study sometimes with both. Their objective is to convert me to their religion. Mine is simply to seek the truth. I am weighing the measure of truth I believe against what I hear and asking questions. I will study with anyone, but I always ask- "is your goal to know THE truth or tell me what truth is?" We will go back and forth. We will not agree on everything, but the discussion is helpful for us all. Each of us will have grown stronger in our convictions. If THE truth has been spoken, Truth will prevail. I am content with that. I believe truth is its own witness to the soul and once planted in grows. Speak truth only and leave the rest up to God. I think that kind of attitude goes along way in bringing people together
Well, I can read it as it is, so Camaroon lets continue with Genesis.
You are free to do that sis/bro, but can you tell me how a God who worketh no evil or thinketh no evil can create evil?
You say scripture does not contradict, so please explain the above question.
The translation I gave shows no contradiction, the one you believe is true cannot be reconciled.
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