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Luke 15: Now all the tax collectors and the [a]sinners were coming near Him to listen to Him. 2 Both the Pharisees and the scribes began to grumble, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”
3 So He told them this parable, saying, 4 “ What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the [b]open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15: Now all the tax collectors and the [a]sinners were coming near Him to listen to Him. 2 Both the Pharisees and the scribes began to grumble, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”
3 So He told them this parable, saying, 4 “ What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the [b]open pasture and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 When he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I tell you that in the same way, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.
God bless and peace.
"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"
-Matthew 23:33
"When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth."
-Matthew 19:22
Tolerance is not accepting lies. Tolerance is promoting Truth. Jesus did not eat with prostitutes, unclean people, tax collectors, etc. He ate with people who WERE those things but no longer. The Pharisees called them these things because they were looking for ways to damage Jesus' reputation. Jesus Himself refused to call them what they were. So you can't say "Jesus ate with dirty people" because that's what a Pharisee would say. Jesus ate with clean people who once were dirty - the liars chose to recognize them for what they were, not what they had become...because their hearts were hardened. Confusing the two is inadvertent distortion.
That was Jesus' point as the True Shepherd. Those who sat with him were repentant of their sins - which means they did those things no longer.
I'm confused as to how I forgot He was 100% divine. I acknowledged He was working God's Will. You have no basis for that accusation.
Just as you had no basis for yours. I guess that means we're even.
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Also, when I quote Jesus' teachings, action, etc. then I am putting forth a foundation for my end of the discussion. That's "who I am". Your response leads me to believe you're someone who can't handle a critique of your position. No wonder you were so defensive.
Well then, you were led to believe wrong.
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Perhaps you should clarify your position - as mine is based on Scriptural actions of Jesus Himself.
So was mine. Evidently we're talking past one another, but no matter. I've made my position clear. If you don't happen to like it, that's fine with me.
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As I've stated, there is an incorrect method to go about "tolerance" in the modern Christian church. The pendulum went from "exclusivity" to "let's accept as much as we can and compromise" in the past century or so, with a progressive move towards the latter position. Neither of those positions are right, but the former is more right than the latter.
Actually, I have never advocated either extreme myself, and I think one's pretty much as bad as the other. I believe it's entirely possible to be unyielding in one's own convictions, I've just never been confortable trying to push my way of thinking on other people. To me, the willingness to live and let live is not a bad thing.
Jesus did not eat with prostitutes, unclean people, tax collectors, etc. He ate with people who WERE those things but no longer.
Just like a doctor only treats those who WERE sick, but no longer.
"Now it happened, as Jesus sat at the table in the house, that behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and sat down with Him and His disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to His disciples, 'Why does your Teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?'
When Jesus heard that, He said to them, Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance." (Matthew 9:10-13)
Indeed, please go and learn what 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice' means. *sigh*
Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they do.
Jesus told us what to accept and tolerate and what not to - told AND showed. There's no reason to be clueless or confused in the matter. One example is the Pharisees - which he called "broods of Vipers!" and "sons of Hell!" Another example is the rich man, who walked away from Jesus because Jesus didn't buckle to him. What did Jesus say? "How hard it is to enter the Kingdom!" Jesus didn't chase him down going, "I'm sorry! I'll tolerate what you're doing, just love Me is all I want!" The Gospel is being dumbed down by modern PC "Christians" who turn Jesus into a big teddy bear: "we can do whatever we want, we just have to hug Him before we go to bed and it is all better."
Interesting how you phrased that. Back in the OT, God told us what to accept and what not to. To think God is going to be ultimately blind to what he hates and reward the unbeliever the same as the believer is plain self-deception. Psalm 5:5 for example is not somebody having a bad day. What happens in Psalm 5:5 is retold by Jesus in greater detail in Matthew 25:30-45.
Deuteronomy 16:21-22
Do not set up any wooden Asherah pole beside the altar you build to the Lord your God,
and do not erect a sacred stone, for these the Lord your God hates.
Psalm 5:5
The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you [the LORD God] hate all who do wrong.
Psalm 11:5
The LORD examines the righteous, but the wicked and those who love violence his [the LORD God] soul hates.
Proverbs 6:16
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes
a lying tongue
hands that shed innocent blood
a heart that devises wicked schemes
feet that are quick to rush into evil
a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers
Isaiah 1:13-14
Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations —I cannot bear your evil assemblies.
Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts my soul hates.
Isaiah 61:8
“For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery and iniquity.
Hosea 9:15
“Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal, I hated them there. Because of their sinful deeds, I will drive them out of my house"
Zechariah 8:17
do not plot evil against your neighbor, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this,” declares the LORD.
Malachi 2:16
“I hate divorce,” says the LORD God of Israel, “and I hate a man’s covering himself with violence as well as with his garment,”
Accept His mercy today, because your sins will not be tolarated after you are dead. Reading Pauls words below, it did not sound like he tolerated sinful acts among the living believers either, but of course he knew sins of the living can be forgiven.
Ephesians 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure:. No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater —has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.
As Jesus went on from there, He saw a man called Matthew, sitting in the tax collector’s booth; and He *said to him, “ Follow Me!” And he got up and followed Him.
10 Then it happened that as [a]Jesus was reclining at the table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and [b]sinners came and were dining with Jesus and His disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to His disciples, “ Why is your Teacher eating with the tax collectors and sinners?”
Hi, Jesus ate with sinners and he even died for you when you were in your sins, Michael atw. You did not have to get "cleaned up" for Jesus to die for you He ate with the crowds which included all kinds of people and most of his condemnation was directed towards people who thought that they were better than the "sinners", the religious leaders. They were in fact sinners who needed to have their eyes opened and their hearts softened. When they wanted to stone that woman who had committed adultery, they were the ones that were wrong. He pointed out the sin in their own lives. Of course, we are not to remain in sin. He came to set us free from sin and death. God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-06-2012 at 05:55 AM..
I could quote all of you and respond very easily with this:
1re·pent
verb \ri-ˈpent\
Definition of REPENT
intransitive verb
1 : to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2 a: to feel regret or contrition b: to change one's mind
If you don't understand what repentance is, it will cause you wholesale problems in the future. Repentance is not repeating the same thing over and over again. Repentance is changing one's ways. Some of you seem to think repentance and forgiveness exists when one still lives in sin. We are all sinners, but not all of us live in our sins.
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
^This is not a recommendation but a command. The aspiration to attain is key to understanding who is promoting and practicing Truth and who is practicing compromise.
"Go, and sin no more."
^Losing the recognition of the True purpose of Jesus' ministry is scary. No, Jesus did not come to cater to you. Jesus came to heal you. He did not come to cater to sinners, He came to heal them.
I could quote all of you and respond very easily with this:
1re·pent
verb \ri-ˈpent\
Definition of REPENT
intransitive verb
1 : to turn from sin and dedicate oneself to the amendment of one's life
2 a: to feel regret or contrition b: to change one's mind
If you don't understand what repentance is, it will cause you wholesale problems in the future. Repentance is not repeating the same thing over and over again. Repentance is changing one's ways. Some of you seem to think repentance and forgiveness exists when one still lives in sin. We are all sinners, but not all of us live in our sins.
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
^This is not a recommendation but a command. The aspiration to attain is key to understanding who is promoting and practicing Truth and who is practicing compromise.
"Go, and sin no more."
^Losing the recognition of the True purpose of Jesus' ministry is scary. No, Jesus did not come to cater to you. Jesus came to heal you. He did not come to cater to sinners, He came to heal them.
What about this one ?.
Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for theLord is able to make him stand. Romans 14:4
Interesting how you phrased that. Back in the OT, God told us what to accept and what not to. To think God is going to be ultimately blind to what he hates and reward the unbeliever the same as the believer is plain self-deception.
"Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin."
-James 4:17
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He ate with the crowds which included all kinds of people and most of his condemnation was directed towards people who thought that they were better than the "sinners", the religious leaders. They were in fact sinners who needed to have their eyes opened and their hearts softened. When they wanted to stone that woman who had committed adultery, they were the ones that were wrong. He pointed out the sin in their own lives. Of course, we are not to remain in sin. He came to set us free from sin and death. God bless and peace.
