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Old 08-11-2012, 02:54 PM
Status: "ask why me ... rather than not why not them" (set 24 days ago)
 
9,395 posts, read 4,871,714 times
Reputation: 1022
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
That is nothing compared to what has happened just in the last hundred years. Your statements are so ridiculous. It is written that in the last days mankind would grow more wicked. Check your recent history.
That is the evolutionist's basic plateform which is why those who believe the scriptures as God Word will never agree with them.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:03 PM
 
2,265 posts, read 831,253 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
You are free to think you are little more than a caveman . . . I am not even remotely the same. Our base drives may be the same . . . but our level of control and capacity for agape love as a reason to control are significantly evolved.
Well that is true with those who put their trust in Christ but not the rest of the world who put their trust in starting two world wars, numerous other wars, genocide without number and every other kind of evil. It is as Jesus said, "Except those days be shortened no flesh would be saved." Deny it if you want but most people can see things for what they are.

The Scripture has a way of pulling down the veil of ignorance so that no man can claim how righteous they are without Christ.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,051,973 times
Reputation: 4328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Please, do not concern yourself with the "risk's" I choose to take...if being labeled a fool for Christ and His precious truth, BRAND ME ! HANG A SIGN ABOVE MY HEAD ON MY CROSS THAT I BARE ! LET IT PROCLAIM TO THE WORLD I AM A FOOL FOR CHRIST !


...SO BE IT !
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
34,679 posts, read 12,051,973 times
Reputation: 4328
Quote:
Originally Posted by garya123 View Post
That is nothing compared to what has happened just in the last hundred years. Your statements are so ridiculous. It is written that in the last days mankind would grow more wicked. Check your recent history.
Yes indeed. The human heart will always be wicked, and will steer the weak away from sound doctrine.

2 Tim 4: 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
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Old 08-11-2012, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Right here
188 posts, read 63,287 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes indeed. The human heart will always be wicked, and will steer the weak away from sound doctrine.

2 Tim 4: 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Of course, as time goes on, one discovers that what's considered 'sound doctrine' varies from one Christian to the next. Makes things even more interesting.


-
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Old 08-11-2012, 04:42 PM
 
22,850 posts, read 10,726,454 times
Reputation: 3851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes indeed. The human heart will always be wicked, and will steer the weak away from sound doctrine.
2 Tim 4: 3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Sound doctrine refers to truth . . . there is nothing that science has shown to be further from the truth about our reality than the myths and fables in the Bible. Take care about who it is that is "turning" away from truth to myths.
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:12 PM
 
Location: USA
5,498 posts, read 1,995,555 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
It says they are judged according to their works.

It doesn't say who does the judging. (Ever read any NDE's? If you put any stock in those experiences at all, it is interesting to note that the judging is always done by the person themselves during a "life review".)

Secondly, the passage doesn't say that what is being judged are the wrongs of people, but rather their works. Perhaps the passage is meant to indicate that God is giving people insight/knowledge into the things that they have done that they consider to be "good works' and showing which of those works are really the works of God/love. That would fit with the Matt 25 passage that speaks of people feeding, clothing, visiting, etc. In that Matt. passage, there's no mention of people doing evil or "working iniquity" (nothing about keeping a record of sin), but rather of people having either embraced or ignored opportunities to love.

The Book of Life in Rev., as I see it, is Christ. The other books that are opened, are each of our lives (our life review). Works done in love are the things that are done in/through the life/spirit of Christ. So anything anyone has done in love as seen in their book/lifetime is what is recorded in that Book of Life/Christ.

So, nothing about God keeping a record of wrongs, but rather of God "keeping a record" of LOVE.

aisi
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I hear lots of rationalization and attempt to reconcile: "well, it's talking about sins, not iniquities" ; "perhaps this is what the writer meant". <snip>
I'm guessing maybe this ^^^ was in response to my post?

Thrill, I have absolutely no problem with what you said in your op. If you feel there are reasons to suspect that Rev. is a fraud or whatever, who am I to tell you differently? I just wanted to share with you how I might be able to see that the Rev. passage you posted does not have to be at odds with the fact that God does not keep a record of wrongs.

I understand the Rev. passage (all Rev. passages) the same way I understand the rest of the bible ...
through the lens that God is love and with the understanding that all of what I read must be in complete accord with the message Christianity is supposed to be giving to the world: that God is in Christ and not holding sins against anyone.

I believe that the only "record being kept" by God is not one of wrongs/sins/evil, but rather of LOVE and love alone. Is that what the author of Rev intended for me to understand by his words? I don't know and don't really care . All I care is what would GOD intend for me to understand in the author's words. And my heart believes LOVE is always the overriding theme and message.

But, as always, that's just aisi.
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Old 08-11-2012, 09:27 PM
 
6,200 posts, read 4,827,403 times
Reputation: 1672
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I'm guessing maybe this ^^^ was in response to my post?
No, Pleroo, I wasn't trying to quote anyone in particular. I was just drawing on my faint memory of what was said in a number of posts that preceded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Thrill, I have absolutely no problem with what you said in your op. If you feel there are reasons to suspect that Rev. is a fraud or whatever, who am I to tell you differently? I just wanted to share with you how I might be able to see that the Rev. passage you posted does not have to be at odds with the fact that God does not keep a record of wrongs.

I understand the Rev. passage (all Rev. passages) the same way I understand the rest of the bible ...
through the lens that God is love and with the understanding that all of what I read must be in complete accord with the message Christianity is supposed to be giving to the world: that God is in Christ and not holding sins against anyone.

I believe that the only "record being kept" by God is not one of wrongs/sins/evil, but rather of LOVE and love alone. Is that what the author of Rev intended for me to understand by his words? I don't know and don't really care . All I care is what would GOD intend for me to understand in the author's words. And my heart believes LOVE is always the overriding theme and message.

But, as always, that's just aisi.
Well, for me there's little to no love at all expressed in Revelation. It's all about God's retribution on a sinful world on the surface and underneath a coded message intended for inhabitants of Jerusalem of the doom that was about to befall them in a few years, which is why Jesus and John keep saying "for the time is near". Of course opponents of this view rationalize "near" to mean "relative to the eons" so that near can actually mean as long as thousands of years into the future. But as we well know the Bible can be twisted to mean just about anything the person wants it to mean.

My problem with Revelation is that Bible experts have analyzed it and the Gospel of John and found both styles of writing to be as different as night and day--so different, in fact, that it would be like saying Samuel Beckett wrote Hamlet. Some of the evidence:

"Word Used" "Gospel of John" "Revelation"
kosmos, "world" / used 79 times/ used only 3 times
aletheia, "truth" / used 25 times/ never used
phos, "light"/ 22 times / 3 times
pisteuo, "to believe"/ 100 times/ not at all
alla, "but"/ more than 100 times/ 13 times
enopion, "before" / once/ 36 times
emos, "mine"/ 42 times / once

2. in referring to Christ as "the Lamb," the Gospel always uses the word amnos, whereas Revelation always uses arnion, both of which mean "lamb."

I could go on and on, but #2 alone should raise eyebrows: that John in his gospel would use one Greek word for lamb exclusively, while in revelation he would use another.

So I am not claiming that Revelation is not necessarily inspired, merely that John the Apostle did not author it, and the evidence seems to weigh heavily in that direction.

Last edited by thrillobyte; 08-11-2012 at 10:50 PM..
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:37 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,966 posts, read 2,848,833 times
Reputation: 1517
Thrill-o-byte, can you believe in/on Jesus Christ without being a BIBLE-ean? 66 books, that's a clue as in a RED FLAG.

Heartsong
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Old 08-12-2012, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,966 posts, read 2,848,833 times
Reputation: 1517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
It says they are judged according to their works.

It doesn't say who does the judging. (Ever read any NDE's? If you put any stock in those experiences at all, it is interesting to note that the judging is always done by the person themselves during a "life review".)

Secondly, the passage doesn't say that what is being judged are the wrongs of people, but rather their works. Perhaps the passage is meant to indicate that God is giving people insight/knowledge into the things that they have done that they consider to be "good works' and showing which of those works are really the works of God/love. That would fit with the Matt 25 passage that speaks of people feeding, clothing, visiting, etc. In that Matt. passage, there's no mention of people doing evil or "working iniquity" (nothing about keeping a record of sin), but rather of people having either embraced or ignored opportunities to love.

The Book of Life in Rev., as I see it, is Christ. The other books that are opened, are each of our lives (our life review). Works done in love are the things that are done in/through the life/spirit of Christ. So anything anyone has done in love as seen in their book/lifetime is what is recorded in that Book of Life/Christ.

So, nothing about God keeping a record of wrongs, but rather of God "keeping a record" of LOVE.

aisi
Refreshing post, as you always have, PLEROO.

Proverbs 23:
6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats: 7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee. 8 The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words. 9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
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