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Not if they THINK I am wrong about what was and was not nailed to the cross. Just because he THINKS I am wrong does not make God's word say anything other than what I am saying He is saying...which is truth.
What he thinks does not change truth one iota.
What YOU think does NOT change truth one iota, either.
But your thoughts still matter.
This post is the direct opposite of many of your other posts Mike.
No it isn't. That is what I have always said. All sin was judged at the cross. Therefore, when a person believes in Christ for eternal life his sins up to the point of his salvation are forgiven. The sins he commits after salvation are forgiven when he simply names them. Sin does not cause the believer to lose his salvation, it only puts him out of fellowship and under the control of his sin nature.
But if you think that I've said something which contradicts this, then post it so that I can see what you're referring to. Please be sure to provide the thread name and post number.
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How can all past sins be forgiven if those sinners died long before Jesus walked the earth?
I explained that in post #4 of this thread.
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Yes, but that's faith/kneeling after death.
No it isn't.
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A concept you strongly reject.
Yes, I do.
The thread is not about Universalism.
Last edited by Michael Way; 08-30-2012 at 06:32 AM..
Originally Posted by twin.spin Verna, Did he bore our sins or our ability not to sin on the tree? A: Jesus did not die for those who have the ability to not commit a sin.
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Verna replied:
Jesus bore the sins of world...to all those of the world who turn to Him and forsake their sins...those who accept His Sacrifice by believing in Him and obeying His word...and His commandments are Top Priority...all Ten of Them. They are that which binds an everlasting covenant between Him and those who Do them.
Sin...those who die in them...will not enter into the Kingdom of God.
Verna,
Jesus died for the all sins of all people all not just for some sins for some people. That mean sins past, present and for future. Jesus does not have to suffer again and again for the future generations beyond 30 AD
But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself...so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many
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Originally Posted by twin.spin Verna, Acts 3:19 does not conclude that. The person who does not repent is the one who believes she\he has no sins to repent of. They see no need to be refreshed that comes from repentance. That is the plea of Acts 3:19
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Verna replied:
Are you kidding? You cannot be serious. So, what you're saying is, because they don't think they have sinned, and see no need for repenting, means they have not sinned and need not be concerned about repenting ? Really ? Seriously ?
Verna,
How can I say this...
It's not they have not sinned ... it's theythink that that they have not. Just because they think that way doesn't remove the fact of their sinfulness.
We are saved in the hope of righteouness, not that we are perfect already and hope is no more hope if we are already perfect. This is not a license to sin but we will in many things especially in the areas of falsely judgeing someone or condemning someone rather then giving them the hope in the Gospel, the same as God gave to us.
Now here is a group that was beginning to fall away but Paul used mercy and loves persuasions to turn them about.
GAL 5:4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; you are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which works by love. You did run well; who did hinder you that you should not obey the truth? This persuasion comes not of Him that calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump."
1JN 5:16-17 "If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and He shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death."
This is a foundational'fundamental misunderstanding concerning what was and what was not nailed to the cross...and needs to be cleared up in order for so many who mistakenly believe that they do not have to honor the Fourth Commandment of God...to REMEMBER ! and to KEEP ! the seventh day Sabbath holy unto God, to do no work...for God hallowed this day and it is a perpetual sign of the covenant between those who do and Him !
We are all condemned to death for our past sins before being born of God.
When we repent, all past sins which required our death because of the law of sin and death are forgiven.
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
The Greek word for "handwriting of ordinances" which were nailed to the cross (KJV) is "cheriographon" which means - a certificate of debt.
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The Biblical concept of sin is that when we sin we owe a debt to God which can only be paid by the shedding of blood - our death.
Remember the Lord's prayer.. Father forgive us our debts..."?
Paul was referring to the Roman practice of nailing a list of the crimes a person has committed to the cross when that person was crucified as an analogy for what was nailed to the cross of Christ.
Spiritually speaking what was nailed to the cross was a list of all our past sins (debts) which are covered by the blood (death) of Jesus.
Amen.
I'd say Yeshua became the Certificate of Debt in our stead...Rmember what was nailed to His Cross?...In Latin, Hebrew and (Aramaic?)...King Of The Jews?...So, if it is said that our sins where nailed to the Cross, and Yeshua became sin for us, and the term Certificate of Debt is employed here, then it was Yeshua that was the Certificate of Debt, for it was He who was nailed to that Cross...
All sins, past, present, and future, were judged at the cross (Rom. 8:3; Heb. 10:12). Not just pre-salvation sins. That is why pre-salvation sins are forgiven at the moment of faith alone in Christ alone (Acts 10:43; Acts 26:18), and why the believer's post salvation sins are forgiven when he simply names, cites, identifies, acknowledges his sins to God when he commits them. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And that is grace. Because all sin was already judged at the cross, the believer need only name his post-salvation sins to God in order to be forgiven.
The believer's sins after salvation do not affect or jeopardize his salvation but simply put him into a state of carnality under the control of his old sin nature. This results in the grieving and quenching of the Holy Spirit. The believer is commanded to not grieve (Eph. 4:30) or quench (1 Thess. 5:19) the Holy Spirit but to be filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 5:18). This is done by simply naming your sins.
The Sabbath is a different issue. The Sabbath was given only to Israel. It was not given to the Gentiles, and it was not given to the Church.
Prior to the Exodus from Egypt the Sabbath was never observed. The Sabbath was interrelated with the Mosaic law. Since the Mosaic Law was a covenant of works, the Sabbath was the divine provision for rest under that covenant.
Exodus 31:12 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13] "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14] 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15] 'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 16] 'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.' 17] "It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed."
It is clear from Hosea 2:11 that the national discipline which was to fall on Israel and which she is now experiencing would be characterized by the cessation of all of her solemn feasts and Sabbaths. Hosea 2:11 "I will also put an end to all her gaiety, Her feasts, her new moons, her sabbaths And all her festal assemblies. In the kingdom age - the Millennium, Israel will resume her Sabbath observances.
Those who attempt to impose the Sabbath on the Church do not understand the distinction between Israel and the Church. They are two different peoples under two different dispensations or administrations of God's divine plan of the ages.
So, only Jews are compelled today to observe the covenant Sabbath?...
All sins, past, present, and future, were judged at the cross (Rom. 8:3; Heb. 10:12). Not just pre-salvation sins. That is why pre-salvation sins are forgiven at the moment of faith alone in Christ alone (Acts 10:43; Acts 26:18), and why the believer's post salvation sins are forgiven when he simply names, cites, identifies, acknowledges his sins to God when he commits them. 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. And that is grace. Because all sin was already judged at the cross, the believer need only name his post-salvation sins to God in order to be forgiven.
The believer's sins after salvation do not affect or jeopardize his salvation but simply put him into a state of carnality under the control of his old sin nature. This results in the grieving and quenching of the Holy Spirit. The believer is commanded to not grieve (Eph. 4:30) or quench (1 Thess. 5:19) the Holy Spirit but to be filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 5:18). This is done by simply naming your sins.
The Sabbath is a different issue. The Sabbath was given only to Israel. It was not given to the Gentiles, and it was not given to the Church.
Prior to the Exodus from Egypt the Sabbath was never observed. The Sabbath was interrelated with the Mosaic law. Since the Mosaic Law was a covenant of works, the Sabbath was the divine provision for rest under that covenant.
Exodus 31:12 The LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 13] "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14] 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15] 'For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. 16] 'So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.' 17] "It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed."
It is clear from Hosea 2:11 that the national discipline which was to fall on Israel and which she is now experiencing would be characterized by the cessation of all of her solemn feasts and Sabbaths. Hosea 2:11 "I will also put an end to all her gaiety, Her feasts, her new moons, her sabbaths And all her festal assemblies. In the kingdom age - the Millennium, Israel will resume her Sabbath observances.
Those who attempt to impose the Sabbath on the Church do not understand the distinction between Israel and the Church. They are two different peoples under two different dispensations or administrations of God's divine plan of the ages.
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
So, only Jews are compelled today to observe the covenant Sabbath?...
There is no weekly Sabbath to be observed by anyone during the Church-age. The Jews are dispersed today under discipline, though some have been regathered in unbelief.
As Hosea 2:11 states, the Sabbaths have ceased. They will be resumed for Israel during the Millennium.
As Hosea 2:11 states, the Sabbaths have ceased. They will be resumed for Israel during the Millennium.
Hos 2:1 Say to your brothers, A people; and to your sisters, Mercy.
Hos 2:2 Strive! Strive with your mother, for she is not My wife, and I am not her husband. Therefore, let her put away her harlotries from her face, and her adulteries from between her breasts,
Hos 2:3 that I not strip her naked and set her out as in the day that she was born, and make her as the wilderness, and place her like a dry land, and kill her with thirst.
Hos 2:4 And I will not have pity for her sons, for they are the sons of harlotries.
Hos 2:5 For their mother has prostituted herself; she who conceived them has acted shamefully. For she said, I will go after my lovers who give my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, my oil and my drink.
Hos 2:6 Therefore, behold, I will hedge your way with thorns, and I will wall up her wall, that she shall not find her paths.
Hos 2:7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them. And she shall look for them, but she shall not find them. Then she shall say, I will go and return to my first husband, for then it was better with me than now.
Hos 2:8 For she did not know that I gave her grain and wine and oil, and I multiplied her silver and the gold they prepared for Baal.
Hos 2:9 So I will return and take My grain in its time, and My wine in its season. And I will take back My wool and My flax she uses to cover her nakedness.
Hos 2:10 And now I will reveal her shamefulness to the eyes of her lovers, and not a man shall deliver her out of My hand.
Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her joy to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
Hos 2:12 And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, of which she has said, They are my rewards that my lovers have given me. And I will set them for a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them.
Hos 2:13 And I will visit on her the days of the Baals in which she burned incense to them. Yea, she adorned herself with her nose rings, and her jewels, and she went after her lovers and forgot Me, says Jehovah.
Hos 2:14 Therefore, behold, I will lure her and bring her to the wilderness, and speak to her heart.
Hos 2:15 And from there I will give her vineyards to her, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope. And she shall answer there as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
Hos 2:16 And at that day, says Jehovah, you shall call Me, My husband; and you shall no more call Me, My Baal.
Hos 2:17 For I will take away the names of the Baals out of her mouth; and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
Hos 2:18 And in that day I will cut a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the birds of the heavens, and the creepers of the ground. And I will break the bow and the sword, and the battle out of the earth, and I will make them to lie down safely.
Hos 2:19 And I will betroth you to Me forever. Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in mercy, and in compassions.
Hos 2:20 I will even betroth you to Me in faithfulness. And you shall know Jehovah.
Hos 2:21 And it shall be in that day, I will answer, says Jehovah. I will answer the heavens, and they shall answer the earth.
Hos 2:22 And the earth shall hear the grain, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
Hos 2:23 And I will sow her to Me in the earth. And I will have mercy on No Mercy. And I will say to Not My People, You are My people! And they shall say, My God!
I do not see anything in here that states that it will be restored during the Millenium....I see a prophecy of hope here...
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