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Some say we must keep the LAW to be saved... While others say we no longer need the LAW because we are under GRACE... Still others say that we need both to balance our faith life...
Who can share his/her thoughts to enlighten us who need a bit of light on this matter?
If we continue to preach a mixture of the two from our pulpits, the church will remain in bondage. Could Adam eat from both trees? Preaching will either point you to the Cross, or make you look at yourself - they say it will "pull" you into the "pit".
The law has a purpose for the ungodly, as it's a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (we cannot fulfill it, so we see our need for Him).
Heading to work, but quickly:
The law never made anyone holy - grace makes everyone holy.
3000 died when the law was given, 3000 were saved when grace was given.
Moses' face shined when he came down from the mountain, and the people fled - Jesus' face shined when He came down from the mountian of Transfiguration, and the people ran to Him.
Simply put, Paul tells us that Christ is the end of the law, and that the promise cannot be received under the law - it's of faith.
If we continue to preach a mixture of the two from our pulpits, the church will remain in bondage. Could Adam eat from both trees? Preaching will either point you to the Cross, or make you look at yourself - they say it will "pull" you into the "pit".
The law has a purpose for the ungodly, as it's a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (we cannot fulfill it, so we see our need for Him).
Heading to work, but quickly:
The law never made anyone holy - grace makes everyone holy.
3000 died when the law was given, 3000 were saved when grace was given.
Moses' face shined when he came down from the mountain, and the people fled - Jesus' face shined when He came down from the mountian of Transfiguration, and the people ran to Him.
Simply put, Paul tells us that Christ is the end of the law, and that the promise cannot be received under the law - it's of faith.
But I read this also in the Bible about faith and grace that seem to make law and grace harmonious:
Romans 3:31 "So do we destroy the law by following the way of faith? Not at all! In fact, faith causes us to be what the law actually wants."
Also this; Romans 6:15 "So what should we do? Should we sin because we are under grace and not under law? Certainly not!"
Properly dividing Law and Gospel is difficult, and most people are not good at it. Since you're interested in this topic, I would encourage you to read a few things that will shed some light on this issue. The Bible believing Lutherans (NOT ELCA) have done a lot of work in this area, and so some of their stuff is very good. The first would be the section on Law and Gospel in the "Formula of Concord", contained in the "Book of Concord." I believe if you do a search, you can find this available on line. The other books are by CFW Walther. The short version of his book, "Law and Gospel." is "God's No and God's Yes".
But to give you a quick summary, it works this way. The Law, 10 Commandments, teaches God's will and how we can love God and love our neighbor as ourselves. It reveals that we are all sinners and condemned by God by our sins. It reveals how we can love God and our neighbor. But it does not reveal how we can be saved. This only comes from the Gospel, what God has done to save His people and what He offers to all who believe in Him.
This kind of study will take some time and dedication but is well worth the effort. I've been at it for 30 years.
But I read this also in the Bible about faith and grace that seem to make law and grace harmonious:
Romans 3:31 "So do we destroy the law by following the way of faith? Not at all! In fact, faith causes us to be what the law actually wants."
Also this; Romans 6:15 "So what should we do? Should we sin because we are under grace and not under law? Certainly not!"
It's not difficult to see that Christ fulfills the law in us; as Jesus said, "He (the Father) doeth the works".
Imagine you're on a highway with no speed limit signs - there is no law; the Spirit constrains us to do what pleases Him, and we drive safely without even trying.
Faith without works is dead, indeed - true faith will bear fruit, and not just helping old ladies cross the street - believing God will heal your body and spirit, renew your youth, give wealth and honor, etc.
The law will never justify anyone - that's scripture. Saying that we need a balance is safe for the flesh, because it keeps a safe distance from losing control - we want to keep control. But let me ask, when the Lord showed Adam the two trees in the Garden, did He say anything about a balance?
Last edited by little elmer; 09-27-2012 at 06:31 AM..
Some say we must keep the LAW to be saved... While others say we no longer need the LAW because we are under GRACE... Still others say that we need both to balance our faith life...
Who can share his/her thoughts to enlighten us who need a bit of light on this matter?
Romans 10:4 says that Jesus is the end of the LAW for righteousness. The whole book is a thorough explanation on why the LAW can't and won't save us. It only serves to show where we fail--since none of us can keep it.
Jesus did keep the Law--he is sinless. He lived a sinless life under the Law, and was crucified on a cross. He now gives those that trust in him his righteousness that he earned by living perfectly.
Now, the Law serves to tell us what a good work is. Jesus said to love our neighbors...love our enemies. Now, instead of not stealing, we are to look after our neighbor's belongings. Instead of not killing...we are to look after the welfare of our neighbor. But those works are not for salvation -- they're out of gratitude to God, and as a result of a changed heart.
Some say we must keep the LAW to be saved... While others say we no longer need the LAW because we are under GRACE... Still others say that we need both to balance our faith life...
Who can share his/her thoughts to enlighten us who need a bit of light on this matter?
-Along with grace, we as Christians still have a law to follow, its the law of Christ. Isaiah shows how we were waiting for Christ and his law.
Isaiah 42:1-4
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Servant of the Lord
42 “Behold! My Servant whom I uphold,
My Elect One in whom My soul delights!
I have put My Spirit upon Him;
He will bring forth justice to the Gentiles.
2 He will not cry out, nor raise His voice,
Nor cause His voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed He will not break,
And smoking flax He will not quench;
He will bring forth justice for truth.
4 He will not fail nor be discouraged,
Till He has established justice in the earth; And the coastlands shall wait for His law.”
-Mathew 28:19 shows all power has been given to Christ, so we are to follow his commands which most are found in Matthew 5-7
Matthew 28:18-19
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
-What are his commands?
John 13:34-35
New King James Version (NKJV)
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
1 John 3:22-24
New King James Version (NKJV)
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us[a] commandment.24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
-The Law of Christ is to walk in the Spirit and Love One another, believe in him and love God.
Galatians 6:2
New International Version (NIV)
2 Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.
1 Corinthians 9:21
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
-And Galatians 5 shows how we can live by the spirit Galatians 5:18-25
New International Version (NIV)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Law vs grace has been and will continue to be a source of contention among Christians. In one thread, I don't remember which, someone posted a link to an article which talked about this very thing. I learned a lot from it. Here are just a few excerpts. It is a LONG article but it is very good and touches on this issue. He is very explicit in denying we are under the Law as given on Mt. Sinai on the tablets of stone. Yet he explains that we are not FREE to live in sin for the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is now working in us.
I need to read this through several times to grasp some of the significance of it. It does harmonize the passages from James and Paul telling us to 'work out our salvation.' And yet it is God who works in us to will and to do. We truly do have an awesome God. I posted a bit of this in the thread about Queen Vashti, posting some excerpts with scripture where Paul tells us the law given to Moses was a 'ministration of death' and that it's glory, like the glory Moses exhibited, was a glory that was only temporary until Christ, the permanent glory, had come.. Many are afraid that without the Law we will live immoral lives.. But grace is NOT God turning a blind eye to our sin. It is the means whereby He brings us into righteousness. If you are not chastised and dealt with in this age, you will be in the next.
[i]By Grace ye are saved! Is that ever true. But, you are about to discover something that the Bible reveals about Grace, that the Christian church has never seen before, even though they read the same book. You are about to see the very foundation of how and why Paul tells the church to work our salvation outwardly.
In the orthodox Christian doctrine we are taught that God's Grace equates to God's ignorance. Many in the Christian church believe that Grace is basically God being nice. It goes like this: in order to get God to be nice to you, and forgive you, obtain grace. After all, according to Evangelicals, we are not saved by works, but faith alone. Jesus was judged in our place, right? Therefore, if you have faith in Jesus, God sees His righteousness, even if you are not. The flesh loves that idea, but it's clearly ANTI-BIBLICAL as this paper will show.
The Bible reveals Grace in its true purpose. Grace comes from the Greek word charis, meaning "good will, favor, benefit" etc. This grace is attained by faith in Jesus. The Bible says that "we have access into grace by faith" (Romans 5:2). Are you with me so far? Are you ready for a revelation?
Titus 2:11-14 For the Grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches (paideuo) us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to DO what is good.
...
Hebrews 12:5-7 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth (paiduo), and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Rev 3:18-19 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten (paiduo): be zealous therefore, and repent.
2 Cor 6:9 as unknown, yet we are known by all; as though we were dead, but, as you see, we live on. Although punished (paiduo), we are not killed;
Did you know that God is so good and so merciful, that by His Grace, He will punish, rebuke and chasten you when you really need it? That probably doesn't sound too nice. Keep reading. We need to start considering God's mercy-by-Grace in line with the Bible. The carnal man sees "mercy" in God leaving him alone. God sees mercy from On High, in freeing man from that flesh. If God left the carnal man dead in sin without chastising him, that would be showing a lack of mercy. This process is called "deliverance from sin."
God does not expect instant perfection. Nobody is perfect. John says "If we say we are without sin, we are liars and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8). If we were perfect, God would find no need for chastisement. Paul said "For sin shall not have dominion over you." (Romans 6:14). The Gospel is about deliverance from slavery to a carnal mind not instant perfection. The Gospel is about freedom! The question is, do Christians really desire that kind of freedom? Do they desire it enough to desperately cry out for it?
1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as (God) is righteous.
That's the New Testament, mind you. It is not a very popular thing to say in today's Evangelical Christian churches. Nobody wants to hear that you cannot be righteous without doing it. No preacher will say "people who do good are righteous." They say they are righteous just by believing in Jesus. The question must be asked of all who claim to be Christ's followers: do you want to be free to sin, or freed from it?
Christians would rather believe that God gives them Grace by declaring them righteous and perfect because of their faith. Actually being pure is not taught as essential to the Gospel, but it's nice if you can. In today's church, preachers say that we are righteous by our faith alone, not by what we do. Wrong. John says, "do not be deceived" by that. John says "he who does righteousness is righteous, even as God is righteous."
He was very concerned about a deception floating around the churches, in whispered theories and vain teachings: That because Christ died for the world, even them who have not had a changed heart are still declared righteous by God, as long as they have faith. Yet, God says "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!" (Isa 5:20).
Common sense dictates that if God has already declared someone pure, this would negate any necessity to chastise us for sinning.[i]
A lot of good meat in this article. And lots and lots of scripture. And to repeat, just to make sure no one thinks the author is defending the ten commandments, he does NOT. But there is a better law that we are now under but are not left to try and obey it in our flesh. God is amazing and greatly to be praised!!
Have an awesome day!
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