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It's fashionable these days to claim that Christ wasn't really born on December 25, and that the date was chosen to displace a pagan festival. It's a plausible idea and, if true, doesn't disturb the Christian faith one iota. The feast of Christmas is a commemoration, and commemorations can take place anytime. But the puzzle is why so many of the faithful so eagerly pounce on the conclusions of revisionist "scholarship" that is famously hostile to Christianity. Some of these revisionists make a career out of trying to debunk religious claims, probably under the mistaken impression that the historic dates attached to feast days are dogma, when in fact they are merely conventions and, indeed, are sometimes moved by Church authority.
"The date of December 25th only became the 'Birthday of the Unconquered Sun' under the Emperor Julian the Apostate. Julian the Apostate had been a Christian but who had apostatized and returned to Roman paganism. History reveals that it was the hateful former Christian Emperor that erected a pagan holiday on December 25. Think about that for a moment. What was he trying to replace?"
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Doesn't this belong in the Religion section?
And BTW, these kinda ''debates'' are irrelevant in a world where now even Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and folks of many other faiths increasingly observe ''Christmas'' as simply a nice secular holiday for festive gatherings and exchanging gifts. So ''Christians'' don't own this hoiiday, and all the ''debunkers'' in the world ain't ever gonna change that.... welcome to the 21st Century!
And BTW, these kinda ''debates'' are irrelevant in a world where now even Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims and folks of many other faiths increasingly observe ''Christmas'' as simply a nice secular holiday for festive gatherings and exchanging gifts.
I would like to think that even Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims might like to know something about the origins of the holiday (i.e., holy day) they have chosen to celebrate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45
So ''Christians'' don't own this hoiiday, and all the ''debunkers'' in the world ain't ever gonna change that.... welcome to the 21st Century!
Jesus Christ and His Church own the holiday. There would be no Christmas otherwise, for anyone.
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The practice of Saturnalia was around before Julian The Apostate and it was practiced by nearly every culture in the world (but by other names). The observance of the birth of The Christ was moved to this time period thru a common practice, by all religions, called Syncretism. However, it isn't impossible that he was born on this day - just unlikely as he would have had a 1 in 365 chance of being on that day.
The practice of Saturnalia was around before Julian The Apostate and it was practiced by nearly every culture in the world (but by other names). The observance of the birth of The Christ was moved to this time period thru a common practice, by all religions, called Syncretism. However, it isn't impossible that he was born on this day - just unlikely as he would have had a 1 in 365 chance of being on that day.
Marshall: "Saturnalia commemorated the winter solstice. Yet the winter solstice falls on December 22. It is true that Saturnalia celebrations began as early as December 17 and extended till December 23. Still, the dates don’t match up."
Also, Marshall notes that Dec 25 was observed among Christians long before Constantine. There was no danger of the early Christians celebrating Saturnalia.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim
Marshall: "Saturnalia commemorated the winter solstice. Yet the winter solstice falls on December 22. It is true that Saturnalia celebrations began as early as December 17 and extended till December 23. Still, the dates don’t match up."
The dates don't have to match up to Saturnalia. The whole week of the Winter Solstace was a week of celebration and depending on what day the solstace actually fell upon, it would be celebrated on another day - must like what we do to this day. The early church did not celebrate the birth of The Christ (at least no writings seem to indicate this and it isn't mentioned in the Didache and extra-biblical writings), so when the early Catholic church decided to use the festive time of the Winter Solstace, it was meant to be festival specific - not day specific. There doesn't seem to be any indication that anyone knew when Jesus was born. The Eastern Church (at the same time) decided that January 6th would be the day to observe it, but with a week's worth of celebration leading up to this. The syncretisation of both the western and eastern church's slightly different practices, led to the Advent practice followed by the 12 Days of Christmas.
I would like to think that even Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and Muslims might like to know something about the origins of the holiday (i.e., holy day) they have chosen to celebrate.
How much do Christians know or want to know about the Jewish, Buddihst, Hindu and Muslim holidays?
Last I checked, Jews, Buddists, Hindus and Muslims do not celebrate Christmas just as Christians do not celebrate the holidays of other religions.
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