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Do you believe what is stated in those two passages, or do you not?
"If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart in Penal Substitution, you shall be saved ...?"
Salvation is by grace through faith; never of faith, plus Penal Substitution. It is clear that you just aren't going to get it right when it comes to Atonement. There is no passage in Scripture that states it's a Penal Substitution.
You don't understand why God had to forsake Jesus at the cross. If Jesus offers Himself as a sacrifice for our sins then God must punish Him like a sinner. If God showed any mercy on Jesus at the cross when He was bearing all the sins of the world then justice against sin has not been done. How does humanity pay a debt to God that cannot pay? The love of God provided the sacrifice that would secure our salvation forever and the sacrifice is Jesus. He came to this Earth fully man to have blood and fully God so His blood is eternal to be the once and for all sacrifice for all our sins. God did not turn His back on Jesus because He does not love Him. God turned His back on Jesus because He took our place at the cross. That's why the bible says anyone who believes in Jesus and His finished work at the cross has already been crucified with Him and has passed from death into life. Its not about how good you are. You can never attain salvation with being born again and being born again happens when you put your complete trust in Jesus' sacrifice for your salvation.
An eisegetical presupposition, that the "Sacrifice was Penal" in nature, or that a "payment" was required. Nowhere, in all of Scripture is it said, that God viewed his Sacrifice as a form of "punishment."
"For this is my Son in whom, I am well pleased."
Although, I will say, "He suffered greatly."
The substitutionary death of Christ on the Cross where He bore the penalty for our sins satisfied the righteous demands of God toward the offense of sin.
Galatians 4-6
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we by the Spirit, out of faith are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision, nor uncircumcision means anything; but faith working through love.
An eisegetical presupposition, that the "Sacrifice was Penal" in nature, or that a "payment" was required. Nowhere, in all of Scripture is it said, that God viewed his Sacrifice as a form of "punishment."
"For this is my Son in whom, I am well pleased." Although, I will say, "He suffered greatly."
The purpose of sacrifice is the innocent lamb takes the sinner's sin and the sinner receives the lamb's righteousness. In salvation Jesus received our sins and when we believe in Him we receive His righteousness. As far as God is concerned it happened already.
Galatians 4-6 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we by the Spirit, out of faith are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision, nor uncircumcision means anything; but faith working through love.
You would betray him with the kiss of death?
Jesus rebuked the way of Cain (human effort) in attaining righteousness. Jesus said to the Pharisees that their obedience will not make them right with God. They were very stubborn and trusted only their self for righteousness, like those being rebuked in the verses you quoted. The hope of righteousness is the righteousness we receive from Christ and His finished work. Without a sacrifice for sins there is no hope of righteousness.
The purpose of sacrifice is the innocent lamb takes the sinner's sin and the sinner receives the lamb's righteousness. In salvation Jesus received our sins and when we believe in Him we receive His righteousness. As far as God is concerned it happened already.
Impute means to "count" or "reckon." It never means to mystically transfer!
Faith is imputed [counted or reckoned as, or] for righteousness.
It does not say righteousness is imputed [mystically-transferred] because of faith.
"If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart in Penal Substitution, you shall be saved ...?"
Salvation is by grace through faith; never of faith, plus Penal Substitution. It is clear that you just aren't going to get it right when it comes to Atonement. There is no passage in Scripture that states it's a Penal Substitution.
There is no passage that uses the specific words 'Penal Substitution'. It is stated in other ways. You refuse to acknowledge that Jesus dying for our sins means substitution. You refuse to acknowledge that Jesus bearing our sins in His body means substitution.
You refuse to acknowledge that substitution is taught in the following passages.
Romans 3:21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22] even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25]whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith.This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26] for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2]and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Propitiation - hilasmós:
2434 hilasmós – properly, propitiation; an offering to appease (satisfy) an angry, offended party. 2434 (hilasmós) is only used twice (1 Jn 2:2, 4:10) – both times of Christ's atoning blood that appeases God's wrath, on all confessed sin. By the sacrifice of Himself, Jesus Christ provided the ultimate 2434 /hilasmós ("propitiation"). Strong's Greek: 2434. ??????? (hilasmos) -- propitiation
1 John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Propitiation - hilasmós:
HELPS Word-studies
2434 hilasmós – properly, propitiation; an offering to appease (satisfy) an angry, offended party. 2434 (hilasmós) is only used twice (1 Jn 2:2, 4:10) – both times of Christ's atoning blood that appeases God's wrath, on all confessed sin. By the sacrifice of Himself, Jesus Christ provided the ultimate 2434 /hilasmós ("propitiation"). Strong's Greek: 2434. ??????? (hilasmos) -- propitiation
In these three passages, Romans 3:21-26, 1 John 2:1, and 1 John 4:10 we see that the blood of Jesus with reference to His spiritual death on the Cross which paid the penalty for our sins, satisfied or propitiated the righteous demands of the Father regarding sin.[/quote]
You did not even address those passages. You avoided them. In my opinion based on your posting history, you do not have the integrity and the objectivity to admit that the Bible clearly teaches that Christ died in our place, as our substitute. Therefore, you reject the gospel message. Continue then to deceive yourself. And woe to you for any who are deceived on your account.
Impute means to "count" or "reckon." It never means to mystically transfer! Faith is imputed [counted or reckoned as, or] for righteousness.
It does not say righteousness is imputed [mystically-transferred] because of faith.
I'm not sure which dictionary you pulled that from but the word impute means that something is done or credited to you by someone else. You can go to Google, type in impute, and see for yourself.
I'm not sure which dictionary you pulled that from but the word impute means that something is done or credited to you by someone else.
You can go to Google, type in impute, and see for yourself.
There is no passage that uses the specific words 'Penal Substitution'.
Thank You!
Quote:
It is stated in other ways.
Quote:
In my opinion based on your posting history, you do not have the integrity and the objectivity to admit that the Bible clearly teaches that Christ died in our place, as our substitute. Therefore, you reject the gospel message. Continue then to deceive yourself. And woe to you for any who are deceived on your account.
FACT: No passage in ALL of Scripture states that the death of Christ was a "payment for sin." Must God have His pound of flesh and blood, or is the Gospel about love, mercy and grace?
Last edited by Jerwade; 07-04-2013 at 10:03 PM..
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