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Hi Finn_Jarber, I agree I don't know of any real works that the thief did. And yes, Paul says that we are saved by Grace through Faith. That is not disputed by me. What is disputed is to believe that you can continue in that Faith and not do Good works and STILL believe your saved. Do you believe that one can have faith and continue therein and still be saved if they don't do good works?
Really? In the midst of his own fear and pain, he chose to intervene when the other man (in the midst of his own fear and pain) was angrily mocking Jesus. Defending others who are being abused certainly seems like a "good work" to me, in that it shows a heart moved to action by compassion/God.
Really? In the midst of his own fear and pain, he chose to intervene when the other man (in the midst of his own fear and pain) was angrily mocking Jesus. Defending others who are being abused certainly seems like a "good work" to me, in that it shows a heart moved to action by compassion/God.
Yes, I didn't mean to downplay it but the point is that if someone couldn't do the good work it doesn't void real saving Faith. Again, we are saved at Faith, the Good Works are evidence of the saving Faith. Those Good Works must follow the believer.
Yes, I didn't mean to downplay it but the point is that if someone couldn't do the good work it doesn't void real saving Faith. Again, we are saved at Faith, the Good Works are evidence of the saving Faith. Those Good Works must follow the believer.
What is it you believe a person is saved from at the moment they "have real faith"?
Hi Finn_Jarber, I agree I don't know of any real works that the thief did. And yes, Paul says that we are saved by Grace through Faith. That is not disputed by me. What is disputed is to believe that you can continue in that Faith and not do Good works and STILL believe your saved. Do you believe that one can have faith and continue therein and still be saved if they don't do good works?
I said works are the fruit of the Spirit. If you have the Spirit, you have the fruit. No Spirit, no fruit. You are saved by grace, through faith, and you will remain saved even if you are unable to perform works. You cannot earn your salvation by doing stuff you think will look good in God's eye, especially if your motivation is fear of losing your salvation.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 08-23-2013 at 09:43 AM..
I said works are the fruit of the Spirit. If you have the Spirit, you have the fruit. No Spirit, no fruit. You are saved by grace, through works, and you will remain saved even if you are unable to perform works. You cannot earn your salvation by doing stuff you think will look good in God's eye, especially if your motivation is fear of losing your salvation.
I think you misspoke on the highlighted part.
I'm not talking about earning salvation. Do you believe that love is the Good Work of Faith?
If you try earning a spot in Heaven,you've fallen from grace
If you take simply this statement with no clarification it is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. However like all over simplifications, it is a lawyerly attempt to be an excuse.
One can hear about faith, but the TRUTH has to be seen.
If you are a true believer and you have a LIVING faith, it's evidenced by your works. If you have a dead faith, you're usually condemning the works of other people, or condemning the sin of other people because you have nothing to show for yourself so you play the hypocrite by condemning others.
Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby unregenerate sinners have the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5), poured out on them, thereby causing them to be born again (John 3:11). God removes sin-hardened hearts of stone and replaces them with hearts of flesh and fills them with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that is the catalyst for them to walk in obedience to His commands and judgments (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
What don't you do because of your faith?
What DO you do, because of your faith?
Do your lips and your life agree?
That is the salvation which comes from God--from both faith and works of obedience just as heat and light are irreparably joined to fire.
You cannot "work" your way into heaven. Neither can you "believe" your way into heaven. You must have an ongoing transforming experience that results in a changed life both internally and externally. Every day is a new day in Christ Jesus, our Lord.
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Correct!!!!
