To whom is Jesus speaking in Matthew 24? (abomination, church, believe)
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Matthew 24 contains over 20 YOUs. There are many who say that this personal pronoun does not refer to the disciples alone but that it addresses those of our generation.
Is this a proper understanding of how the you of direct address is used in common, usual, everyday language?
How should we distinquish between the YOUs which convey general principles and the YOUs which refer to a specific person or people of a specific time about specific things that pertain to them alone?
As best as I can make it, this is how it works through. In verses 1-2, He is talking to the disciples regarding the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70. The rest of the chapter deals with both the temple desecration in A.D. 70 and the times that we are living in now. Many at that time believed that it was the era that Christ was alluding to as far as the tribulation but in 29-31, He is talking about His imminent return which has not happened yet. The rest of the chapter deals with how we are to be prepared for His return. It was spoken of as a warning for both His disciples and for us and how to be ready for His apperance.
May I ask which bible version are you using? My SJ has few if any "yous."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist
Matthew 24 contains over 20 YOUs. There are many who say that this personal pronoun does not refer to the disciples alone but that it addresses those of our generation.
Is this a proper understanding of how the you of direct address is used in common, usual, everyday language?
How should we distinquish between the YOUs which convey general principles and the YOUs which refer to a specific person or people of a specific time about specific things that pertain to them alone?
As best as I can make it, this is how it works through. In verses 1-2, He is talking to the disciples regarding the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70. The rest of the chapter deals with both the temple desecration in A.D. 70 and the times that we are living in now. Many at that time believed that it was the era that Christ was alluding to as far as the tribulation but in 29-31, He is talking about His imminent return which has not happened yet. The rest of the chapter deals with how we are to be prepared for His return. It was spoken of as a warning for both His disciples and for us and how to be ready for His apperance.
urbanlemur: Why are you so sure that verses 29-31 have not yet happened? Jesus gives no indication to those disciples that He is changing time frames or that He is speaking to any other than them. In fact, in verse 34 He clearly indicates that all those things were to come upon that generation--that includes verses 29-31.
I believe the problem is that we have been conditioned to see verses 29-31 in a certain wa--as I was for over twenty years as a pre-mil, pre-trib. dispensationalist. But if one studies verses 29-31 in light of the typical prophetic figurative language common in the OT, he can see that the things spoken of fit that type of language. The disciples, being Jewish themselves and very familiar with the OT Scriptures, would have easily understood what Jesus was saying. Cloud comings were indicative of God's coming in judgment upon a nation or people. Edom (Isa. 34:4-5), Egypt (Ezek. 32:7-8), Babylon (Isa. 13:9, 10, 13) and even Israel (Amos 5:18; 8:9) were judged by God not in His actual presence but through the instrumentality of other nations. In each instance there were figurative upheavals in the heavens and earth.
Jesus told His disciples right there with Him that they would see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet. Again, He gives no indication that He is suddenly beginning to talk to a generation far removed from theirs. Jesus told those disciples to watch and be ready because He was coming back in that generation--"This generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." That includes verses 29-31. Whenever Jesus uses that expression (this generation), He is always referring to those contemporaneous to Himself.
It is my belief that the modern Church has failed to understand the nature of Christ's return and thus is unable to see its first-century fulfillment. As a result, many have found it necessary to give "this generation" a strange and awkward meaning.
I am really not interested in arguing over this--I know the futurist arguments and they know mine. I would like to study the POSSIBILITY that verses 29-31 are used by Jesus in a figurative sense--if any are willing to humor me. This should in no way be a threat to what others believe. The question is: Is there some OT justification and merit for understanding verses 29-31 metaphorically? Is it POSSIBLE? Is it possible to take Jesus at His word in verse 34 and not do an injustice to verses 29-31?
Fundamentally from reading the version online, I'd say Jesus is speaking present tense, and future tense within a limited range. It does not read imo as a 21st century reference.
Fundamentally from reading the version online, I'd say Jesus is speaking present tense, and future tense within a limited range. It does not read imo as a 21st century reference.
I agree, ontheroad. And the limited range is given in verse 34--This generation or those contemporaneous to Jesus.
Preterist
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