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Now, I've run into reverse-Marcionists who want to delete everything Pauline from the New Testament, but it's totally illogical to read Acts and Pauline documents with the reverse meaning of what they were written.
It's illogical from a Sunday School Christian point of view, but maybe you should try some scholarly works of textual criticism to realize how those views come about. They aren't new to pastors who have attended major seminaries.
As I stated previously, read Misquoting Jesus by Bart Ehrman who has a very scholarly approach to scripture. You may not be able to swallow all he writes--I don't--but it will give you a better perspective of how scripture came about, how changes were made in them for specific purposes by early Christians, and why some of our present Sunday School beliefs have dominated over the original teachings of Jesus.
If you are afraid to look critically at scripture, then maybe you aren't getting the correct view that God wants you to have.
No, I don't think James is is conflict with Paul. Paul is talking about the mechanism of salvation, James is talking about the operation of the saved.
What most people don't want to consider--and this is said, actually, by both Paul and James--is:
1. Good works (obeying the Law) do not obligate God to salvation. Paul is clearer about this than James, but both say it.
2. Good works necessarily result from salvation.
Both emphasis that if salvation has occured, a desire to good works will result, else the salvation may not have occured at all. That's a tough teaching that nobody really wants to accept.
I would caveat that the result might not be visible to every casual observer. Just like a seed might not show a shoot above ground for days after it has actually germinated, some fruit will take time to grow before it's visible to outside observers, and it may be too subtle to be seen by any except those who know the new Christian intimately.
For instance, a man secretly addicted to pornography may break that addiction after salvation--a real work--that nobody else except him and God will know about.
I'll have to give you best here, because I'm not certain that you are not quite right and it is degrees of faith in relation to works that they are debating. I have gained the impression that Paul did regard faith and not works at all as being what would save, and James regarded faith without works as worthless, but I have to say that I'm not in the mood for a deep analysis of the epistles, especially as I can't be sure that it was actually James who wrote the letter.
I'll conceded that I haven't been able to make a sound case - not that it would convince anyone who didn't agree even if I did.
I'll have to give you best here, because I'm not certain that you are not quite right and it is degrees of faith in relation to works that they are debating. I have gained the impression that Paul did regard faith and not works at all as being what would save, and James regarded faith without works as worthless, but I have to say that I'm not in the mood for a deep analysis of the epistles, especially as I can't be sure that it was actually James who wrote the letter.
I don't think James would disagree with Paul that faith is what saves, but I think James makes more clear that the necessary result of salvation will be good works. "Faith without works is dead" means that if there are no following works as a result of faith, then there was really no faith at all and thus no salvation.
"‘I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’" (John 6:51–52).
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" (John 6:53–56).
"As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me" (John 6:57).
Paul wrote to the Corinthians: "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?" (1 Cor. 10:16). So when we receive Communion, we actually participate in the body and blood of Christ, not just eat symbols of them.
"And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the New Covenant in my blood." Jesus' words to Saint Faustina:
[SIZE=4]I desire to unite Myself with human souls... When I come to a human heart in Holy Communion, My hands are full of all kinds of graces which I want to give to the soul. But souls do not even pay any attention to Me; they leave Me to Myself and busy themselves with other things. Oh; how sad I am that souls do not recognize Love![/SIZE] (1385)
[SIZE=4]Oh, how painful it is to Me that souls so seldom unite themselves to Me in Holy Communion. [/SIZE]
I don't think James would disagree with Paul that faith is what saves, but I think James makes more clear that the necessary result of salvation will be good works. "Faith without works is dead" means that if there are no following works as a result of faith, then there was really no faith at all and thus no salvation.
I agree that without the evidence of works there is no evidence of faith. But none of it has anything to do with salvation. That was Christ's job and it is finished! We have nothing to do with it. But our sanctification has everything to do with how much we "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't.
I agree that without the evidence of works there is no evidence of faith. But none of it has anything to do with salvation. That was Christ's job and it is finished! We have nothing to do with it. But our sanctification has everything to do with how much we "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't.
Are you saying that faith has nothing to do with salvation? That Jesus has saved everyone (or an elect) regardless of faith?
Are you saying that faith has nothing to do with salvation? That Jesus has saved everyone (or an elect) regardless of faith?
Faith is too vague a term because it tends to be associated with mere belief in a specific set of doctrines or dogma ABOUT Christ. The only faith that is required is faith that Christ saved us all from our eternal separation from God. That part is done (finished). All WE have to DO is possess the inner conviction of that as revealed by our "fruits." We need to be His disciples by following His instruction to His disciples to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. If we allow our lives to be led by His Holy Spirit (Comforter) to what God has "written in our hearts" we attain the cover of His perfect grace for our imperfections.
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I owe you one
