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Undoubtedly, this is probably one of the biggest sticking points between the LDS church doctrine and the doctrine of Baptists, Lutheran, Methodists, etc. Since we believe that God is Jesus is the Holy Spirit (i.e. the Trinity), He has no equal, nor does He have a relation in the sense of what you mentioned. However, we do believe that God threw Satan out of heaven for the reasons that you mentioned.
I know this causes a lot of consternation between the groups and is probably one of many issues that will never be reconciled. It's a good thing we have two way streets or we would be colliding an awful lot. (Come to think of it, we do a pretty good job of that anyway, don't we?)
You bring up a perspective I actually hadn't considered. I simply assumed the sticking point was that we believe Satan is spiritually connected to Christ; I never considered the Trinity angle.
The following is a summary of Latter Day Saint's Goal. Each of the following points is covered in one or more of the previous Latter Day Saint's Goal articles.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Godhood is the ultimate goal of Mormonism
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism uses the term "eternal life" to be synonymous with being a god
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)However, in Christianity the term "eternal life" means something very different
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The Mormon definition of the term "salvation" or "saved" is dramatically different from the Christian definition
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)In talking to Mormons, we need to discuss "How they think they will be exalted"; not "How they think they will be saved"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism also uses the terms "exaltation" or "having an eternal family" to be synonymous with being a god
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Most often these synonyms, along with "gaining eternal life", are used instead of "becoming a god"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Many Mormons dispute the goal of "becoming a god" although they will agree with the goals of "exaltation", gaining eternal life" and "having an eternal family"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Many Mormons honestly do not know that godhood is the ultimate goal that the Mormon church teaches
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)While the goal of godhood is clearly stated in Mormon literature, it is not part of the Mormon church's advertisements or missionary discussions
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)It appears that the Mormon church is increasing their efforts to come across to the public and their members as Christian
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)In these settings, the goal of godhood shows that the Mormon doctrine is very un-Christian
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The Mormon church can gain many desirable situations from creating the false impression that the divide between Mormonism and Christianity is narrow
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The true distance of the divide between God's true gospel and Mormonism is the distance between Heaven and Hell
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Current emphasis of Mormon external and internal focus is the "eternal family"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Family, and family responsibilities, most often take center stage in Mormonism
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Attaining godhood (exaltation or eternal life) requires being married in the temple
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)In Mormonism, one cannot gain eternal life (godhood) without your spouse
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Once a couple gain eternal life, they create spirit children eternally - these spirits will become children on a different world, just as everyone on this world are the literal spirit children of the god couple of this world
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism teaches that the god of this world (and his wife) were once a man and woman, like us, on a different world
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)This god is believed to exist in physical form - that is, in flesh and bones
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)These beliefs result in a god who is limited in power when compared to the Christian God (e.g. not omnipresent)
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism states belief in one god as an article of faith, yet declares the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost as separate beings who are each individually a god.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism vehemently denies the concept of the Trinity
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)This contradiction is addressed by claiming these three gods form one godhead through their common purpose and can therefore be considered "one god"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormon doctrine clearly states many requirements a Mormon must fulfill before they can attain eternal life
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism frequently uses the term 'gift' to describe something that is given only if certain requirements are fulfilled
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormon doctrine teaches that a person must become perfect
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Perfection is believed to be an achievable goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormon doctrine rejects the Christian doctrine that true believers 'are' perfect through their belief that Christ is their substitute, that his perfection is credited to them
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormon doctrine, thereby, takes the focus off of what God did for us, and places it on what we must do for God
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism is then a 'Man-centered' religion, and not a 'God-centered' religion
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Many conflicting statements are made in Mormon doctrine concerning attaining perfection
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It is stated that anyone who dies in his or her sins (is not perfect) remains in those sins forever
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It is stated that one cannot become perfect in this mortal lifetime
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It is stated that attaining perfection will take ages past this life
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It is stated that when Christ returns, he will judge --- this could be at anytime
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Currently, the Mormon General Authorities seem to be stressing the message that Mormons do not need to be so concerned about perfection --- that if they simply focus on 'doing all they can do' each day, they will qualify for exaltation --- God will 'make up the difference'
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)This message continues the ever-present and all-important emphasis of Mormonism on the requirement of performing works in order to qualify for your own exaltation
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism rightly claims that its gospel is the "gospel of work"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism rejects the biblical teaching declared by Paul in Ephesians 2:8-9, namely that we are freely given exaltation by God through faith and not by works
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The Book of Mormon and the Bible dramatically clash on this biblical truth
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism is inconsistent in defining the grace God grants on the condition of a person doing 'all you can do'.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It teaches grace is the enabling power that allows a Mormon to do the things they can't do on their own, thus making them perfect
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It teaches grace is a conditional gift which grants perfection after a Mormon expends all his or her own efforts
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The one constant in Mormon doctrine is that performing works is an absolute requirement for attaining godhood
Last edited by twin.spin; 12-31-2007 at 11:28 AM..
The following is a summary of Latter Day Saint's Goal. Each of the following points is covered in one or more of the previous Latter Day Saint's Goal articles.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Godhood is the ultimate goal of Mormonism
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism uses the term "eternal life" to be synonymous with being a god
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)However, in Christianity the term "eternal life" means something very different
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The Mormon definition of the term "salvation" or "saved" is dramatically different from the Christian definition
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)In talking to Mormons, we need to discuss "How they think they will be exalted"; not "How they think they will be saved"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism also uses the terms "exaltation" or "having an eternal family" to be synonymous with being a god
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Most often these synonyms, along with "gaining eternal life", are used instead of "becoming a god"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Many Mormons dispute the goal of "becoming a god" although they will agree with the goals of "exaltation", gaining eternal life" and "having an eternal family"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Many Mormons honestly do not know that godhood is the ultimate goal that the Mormon church teaches
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)While the goal of godhood is clearly stated in Mormon literature, it is not part of the Mormon church's advertisements or missionary discussions
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)It appears that the Mormon church is increasing their efforts to come across to the public and their members as Christian
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)In these settings, the goal of godhood shows that the Mormon doctrine is very un-Christian
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The Mormon church can gain many desirable situations from creating the false impression that the divide between Mormonism and Christianity is narrow
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The true distance of the divide between God's true gospel and Mormonism is the distance between Heaven and Hell
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Current emphasis of Mormon external and internal focus is the "eternal family"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Family, and family responsibilities, most often take center stage in Mormonism
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Attaining godhood (exaltation or eternal life) requires being married in the temple
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)In Mormonism, one cannot gain eternal life (godhood) without your spouse
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Once a couple gain eternal life, they create spirit children eternally - these spirits will become children on a different world, just as everyone on this world are the literal spirit children of the god couple of this world
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism teaches that the god of this world (and his wife) were once a man and woman, like us, on a different world
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)This god is believed to exist in physical form - that is, in flesh and bones
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)These beliefs result in a god who is limited in power when compared to the Christian God (e.g. not omnipresent)
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism states belief in one god as an article of faith, yet declares the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost as separate beings who are each individually a god.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism vehemently denies the concept of the Trinity
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)This contradiction is addressed by claiming these three gods form one godhead through their common purpose and can therefore be considered "one god"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormon doctrine clearly states many requirements a Mormon must fulfill before they can attain eternal life
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism frequently uses the term 'gift' to describe something that is given only if certain requirements are fulfilled
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormon doctrine teaches that a person must become perfect
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Perfection is believed to be an achievable goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormon doctrine rejects the Christian doctrine that true believers 'are' perfect through their belief that Christ is their substitute, that his perfection is credited to them
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormon doctrine, thereby, takes the focus off of what God did for us, and places it on what we must do for God
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism is then a 'Man-centered' religion, and not a 'God-centered' religion
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Many conflicting statements are made in Mormon doctrine concerning attaining perfection
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It is stated that anyone who dies in his or her sins (is not perfect) remains in those sins forever
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It is stated that one cannot become perfect in this mortal lifetime
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It is stated that attaining perfection will take ages past this life
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It is stated that when Christ returns, he will judge --- this could be at anytime
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Currently, the Mormon General Authorities seem to be stressing the message that Mormons do not need to be so concerned about perfection --- that if they simply focus on 'doing all they can do' each day, they will qualify for exaltation --- God will 'make up the difference'
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)This message continues the ever-present and all-important emphasis of Mormonism on the requirement of performing works in order to qualify for your own exaltation
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism rightly claims that its gospel is the "gospel of work"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism rejects the biblical teaching declared by Paul in Ephesians 2:8-9, namely that we are freely given exaltation by God through faith and not by works
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The Book of Mormon and the Bible dramatically clash on this biblical truth
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Mormonism is inconsistent in defining the grace God grants on the condition of a person doing 'all you can do'.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It teaches grace is the enabling power that allows a Mormon to do the things they can't do on their own, thus making them perfect
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)It teaches grace is a conditional gift which grants perfection after a Mormon expends all his or her own efforts
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)The one constant in Mormon doctrine is that performing works is an absolute requirement for attaining godhood
Wow, Twin, is this from an online course you took someplace?
Basic Mormon Doctrine Summary
Latter Day Saint's Goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Godhood as Their Ultimate Goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The ultimate goal of Mormonism is to become a god
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Equivalent terms are exaltation, eternal life and having an eternal family
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Godhood as the goal is often understated
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Godhood is still clearly and universally taught
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Doctrine & Covenants 132:19,20: "...then they shall be gods..."
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Compare with Christianity
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Exaltation, in Mormonism, means godhood
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Being saved, in Mormonism, usually refers only to resurrection
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)In Mormonism, resurrection is a free gift, but exaltation must be earned
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Talk to Mormons about exaltation not about salvation Godhood as a Disputed Goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Godhood is clearly the goal of Mormonism
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Often Mormons talk about eternal life, exaltation, or eternal family but do not connect these with godhood - even though they are all synonymous
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Many Mormons discount "becoming a god" but embrace "eternal life" or having an "eternal family"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Godhood as a Hidden Goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Godhood is not part of Mormon missionary's discussions
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The goal of Godhood is not part of the LDS Church's television advertisements
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Many Mormon converts say they have never heard of godhood as a goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The doctrine of godhood makes the LDS church look very non-Christian
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The LDS church is actively trying to appear Christian - to make it appear that there is not so great a distance between Mormonism and Christianity
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The divide between Mormonism and Christianity is pictured in Luke 16:23 when the rich man in hell looked across the great chasm to see Lazarus with Abraham
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Godhood as an Eternal Family
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The LDS church attracts people with its doctrine of eternal families
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Their advertisements and initial discussions do not mention that only gods can have an eternal family.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)A single person cannot be exalted
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormonism places family as the highest priority, seemingly above even their Christ
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Many Mormons no longer realize their church teaches they can not have an eternal family without becoming a god
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)God as Man / Man as God
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The Mormon god was once just a man
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The Mormon god earned the right to be a god
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The Mormon god is flesh and blood
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The Mormon god is limited in power compared to the Christian God
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)The religion of Mormonism is man-centric and not, like Christianity, God-centric
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormonism is attractive because it gives man, ultimately, the power and the glory that rightly belongs to God
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)One God or Many
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormonism teaches there are many (millions?) of gods - each with their own world or universe
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormons base their claim to believe in only one god by saying they only put their faith in the god of this world
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)But the god of this world is really three separate gods organized into a "godhead" unified in direction
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormonism rejects the concept of the triune God - even though the oldest Mormon documents appear to substantiate this concept
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Perfection as Their Intermediate Goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Eternal life is not a free gift in Mormonism
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Eternal life must be earned by becoming perfect and fulfilling other requirements
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormonism has taken the command "Be ye perfect" and turned it into "Become ye perfect"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Teaches you can become perfect
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Rejects Christ's perfection offered to his children.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Doctrine of perfection creates a lot of stress in Mormons
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Rejects the biblical teaching that the purpose of God's law is to show us our sin and turn us (convert us) to rely solely on what Jesus did for us.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Obsessed with becoming perfect
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Substantially weakens the definition of sin - many sins are called transgressions or mistakes.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Progression towards perfection will take a long time, working even ages after death.
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Also taught that the second coming is near
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Creates a paradox: If Christ came today, won't most Mormons have not had enough time to become perfect?
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul1a.gif (broken link)Perfection as a Watered-down Goal
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormonism teaches you must become perfect to gain eternal life
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Also teaches you can't become perfect, but must "do all you can do" to become perfect
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)And it teaches you shouldn't worry about becoming perfect, if you are diligent then god will "make up the difference"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormonism teaches there were many perfect men
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)But current Mormon Sunday school curriculum states "perfection in this life is not possible or even expected"
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Recent LDS church articles make all of these claims
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Mormonism rejects the Gospel message of free eternal life through faith in Jesus Christ
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Redefines 'grace' from a free gift of God to a power their god grants the worthy to do what they could not do on their own - even this 'grace' must be earned
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Recent quote of a Mormon apostle: "The gospel of Jesus Christ is the gospel of work."
http://www.truthinlovetomormons.com/_themes/dovearcs/arcbul2a.gif (broken link)Result of this doublespeak seems to be the over-reaching message from the LDS church to its members of "don't think about it, just keep working and it will all work out!"
SergeantL,
Not really. I'm glad of the timing of my zeroing in on perfection and you studying it lately. I would like to know more of your back ground. What was the "mainstream" religious body did you belong too? As I said before, I'm not a LDS basher, nor do I try "debate" an LDS into a corner. Sometime soon, I'll try to expand on the "heavenly deception".
SergeantL,
Not really. I'm glad of the timing of my zeroing in on perfection and you studying it lately. I would like to know more of your back ground. What was the "mainstream" religious body did you belong too? As I said before, I'm not a LDS basher, nor do I try "debate" an LDS into a corner. Sometime soon, I'll try to expand on the "heavenly deception".
"Not really," well, you certainly obtained this from someplace, and I would like to know the source. I have always found it interesting that other religions devote so much time to studying LDS doctrines and wonder why; especially, since there is no such effort in the LDS Church to study other religions. The LDS focus on their own doctrines.
My background is Methodist
You don't "debate [a] LDS into a corner." Phew, thanks. I just don't know what I would do if you debated me into a corner. Just one point. I'm not going to debate you. If you want to know what we believe and why, I will be happy to explain. I am not, however, going to argue over scriptual interpretation. You, and others like you, have your perspectives and interpretations, and we LDS have ours. There is nothing to debate, which is why I find it hilarious that so much time is spent by non-LDS in their attempts to attack our doctrines and faith. One either believes in their particular faith or they don't, which leaves no room for debate.
Last edited by SergeantL; 12-31-2007 at 01:11 PM..
Sergeantl,
Why so defensive? Believing what is printed by LDS and presenting that isn't an attack.
My sources are from the LDS missionaries and Ensign, Book of Mormon Peril of Great Price, ect and the KJV Bible. In one of your posts, you stated that there was no conraditions between The Book of Mormon and the Bible. I have provided some of them for others eyes to see, but the blind [spititually] will not.
[Bold lettering is major contradictions] Contradictions Book of Mormon ----------- Bible KJV
1 Nephi 2:2 - ----------------------------Genesis 12:1 1 Nephi 3:7 ---------------------------- Romans 3:9-12,20 Ephesians 2:1,12
1 Nephi 4:13 ---------------------------- John 11:50
1 Nephi 8:10 ---------------------------- Genesis 3:6
1 Nephi 8:25 ----------------------------Genesis 3:7
1 Nephi 10:8 ----------------------------Matthew 3:3,11
1 Nephi 10:9 ----------------------------John 1:29
1 Nephi 10:18 -------------------------- Hebrews 13:8
1 Nephi 11:13 -------------------------- Luke 1:26-27
1 Nephi 11:20-21 ---------------------- Luke 1:32
1 Nephi 11:27 -------------------------- Matthew 3:16
1 Nephi 11:29 -------------------------- Matthew 10:1
1 Nephi 11:31 -------------------------- Mark 1:32
1 Nephi 11:33 -------------------------- 1 John 2:2
1 Nephi 11:34 -------------------------- Luke 6:13
1 Nephi 12:2 --------------------------- Mark 13:7
1 Nephi 12:9 --------------------------- Matthew 19:28
1 Nephi 12:10 -------------------------- Revelation 7:14
1 Nephi 13:5 --------------------------- Revelation 17:6
1 Nephi 13:21-22 --------------------- Revelation 7:13-14 1 Nephi 13:26,39 ------------------ Ephesians 2:20-3:6
1 Nephi 13:42 ------------------------ Luke 13:30
1 Nephi 14:10 ------------------------ Revelation 17:5
1 Nephi 14:25-27 -------------------- Revelation 1:1
1 Nephi 15:3 ------------------------- 2 Peter 3:16
1 Nephi 15:16 ----------------------- Romans 11:24
2 Nephi 2:6 -------------------------- John 1:14
2 Nephi 2:8 -------------------------- John 10:18 Acts 26:23
2 Nephi 2:9 -------------------------- Romans 8:34
2 Nephi 2:18 ------------------------ John 8:44 2 Nephi 2:23 ----------------------- Genesis 1:27-28, Colossians 3:10, Ephesians 4:24 2 Nephi 2:23,26 ------------------ Genesis 3:4-5 2 Nephi 2:25 --------------------- Romans 5:12
2 Nephi 3:1 ------------------------ Genesis 48:7 2 Nephi 3:5 ----------------------- John 5:39
2 Nephi 6:9 ------------------------ 1 Timothy 3:16
2 Nephi 9:7 ------------------------ 1 Corinthians 15:53
2 Nephi 9:16 ----------------------- Matthew 25:41
2 Nephi 9:18 ----------------------- Hebrews 12:2
2 Nephi 10:3 ----------------------- Matthew 1:16
2 Nephi 10:4 ----------------------- Matthew 11:21 2 Nephi 10:23 -------------------- Matthew 15:16, Ephesians 1:3-5,Ephesians 2:1-5
2 Nephi 12-24----------------------- word for word from KJV
2 Nephi 25:19 ---------------------- Luke 1:31-32
2 Nephi 25:20 ---------------------- Acts 4:12 2 Nephi 25:23-24 ----------------- Ephesians 2:8-9
2 Nephi 28:7 ------------------------ 1 Corinthians 15:22
2 Nephi 29:3 ------------------------ Was the word “Bible” known 600 years before Christ?
2 Nephi 31:5 -------------------------- Matthew 3:15
2 Nephi 31:8 -------------------------- Matthew 3:16
2 Nephi 31:15 ------------------------ Revelation 3:14
2 Nephi 31:15 ------------------------ Matthew 24:13
2 Nephi 31:21 ------------------------ Acts 4:12
2 Nephi 33:9 -------------------------- Matthew 7:14
I’m not being defensive, Twin, I am just telling you the way it is. I will not debate religion. Debate is pointless. Next, I don’t have the time or energy to plow through your list right now, but if the first two so called contradictions are any indication of the rest, you need to send this list back to the manufacturer and ask for a refund.
First, Genesis 12:1 is the Lord talking to Abram. The time of Abram was over a thousand years before the time of the subjects in 1 Nephi. There is no relation between the two scriptures you quote. 1 Nephi 2:2 is Nephi stating his father, Lehi, was warned in a dream to leave Jerusalem. This took place around 600 BC, and no, Lehi was not told to travel to Egypt. He was told to travel into the wilderness with his family. Abraham is not even remotely connected to this event. Next, what connection is there between Rom. 3: 9-12 and 1 Nephi 3:7? Each scripture is talking about two completely different topics at vastly different times. There is no contradiction in that they are not even related. Gen. 12: 1
1 NOW the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
1 Ne. 2: 2
2 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded my father, even in a dream, that he should take his family and depart into the wilderness.
Rom. 3: 9-12
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one
1 Ne. 3: 7
7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I will go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no commandments unto the children of men, save he shall prepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.
Well, OK, just one more. Let’s go down near the bottom of your list.
2 Nephi 31:21 vs. Acts 4:12
2 Nephi 31:21
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen
Acts 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Once again, Twin, I fail to see any contradiction. One does not get the full story by just reading the above verses alone, but taken in context, both state there is only one name in Heaven where man may gain salvation, and that name is Christ.
Well, at least these two were related.
Last edited by SergeantL; 12-31-2007 at 09:20 PM..
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Mormon doctrine
