A woman accepted Jesus as her savior, but she is a racist. (preach, believers)
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Sorry, I don't have the patience (sin!) to read the whole thread. There are no Christians that don't sin. Sin is no longer imputed (Romans 4).
Did you lie lately? Even a "white" lie? Sin. Fudge your taxes? Sin. Look at another person that's not your spouse lustfully? Sin.
No one stops the act of sinning, but sin is no longer imputed. All sin, past present and future have been forgiven. Read Hebrews 8-10.
Are you saying that sin exists in heaven?
I would think souls need purification before entering heaven?
This dead woman simply has racists thoughts. She cannot help her condition. She has a dislike for non-Europeans. I don't think she needs to go to hell. WHat to do?
Your attempts to simplify the situation is just annoying, jimmie. Sanctification is achieved through "love of God and each other" daily and repenting when we don't. That enables us to be justified under Christ's love for us all (NOT what we merely believe ABOUT Christ!). It is Christ who justifies us but we must be sanctified under His love to get it and receive the cover for our imperfections. If we do NOT get sanctified through love we will reap what we sow, period.
I would think souls need purification before entering heaven?
This dead woman simply has racists thoughts. She cannot help her condition. She has a dislike for non-Europeans. I don't think she needs to go to hell. WHat to do?
Not at all. I'm saying that no one on earth doesn't sin. However, Jesus took it all away. It still doesn't mean that we don't sin while on earth.
While we are already sanctified here, we can still commit acts of sin. Are you saying that you don't do ANYTHINg that is a sin?
I think this is where people go off the tracks. Someone may consider racism a "big" sin while lying is a "lesser" sin, but it's all the same. If you break one, you break all. That's the heart of the gospel - everyone is a sinner, but Jesus came and now believers are righteous.
Let's say someone is hooked on drugs/alcohol/pornography and accepts Jesus as their Savior. After believing, they fall back into those habits. They're still saved. All sins have been forgiven.
Not at all. I'm saying that no one on earth doesn't sin. However, Jesus took it all away. It still doesn't mean that we don't sin while on earth.
People sin all the time. But, I don't think Jesus gave us 007 license to kill.
Quote:
While we are already sanctified here, we can still commit acts of sin. Are you saying that you don't do ANYTHINg that is a sin?
Of course we sin. Don't use straw men please.
[quoue]
I think this is where people go off the tracks. Someone may consider racism a "big" sin while lying is a "lesser" sin, but it's all the same. If you break one, you break all. That's the heart of the gospel - everyone is a sinner, but Jesus came and now believers are righteous.
Let's say someone is hooked on drugs/alcohol/pornography and accepts Jesus as their Savior. After believing, they fall back into those habits. They're still saved. All sins have been forgiven.[/quote]
The bible states the following:
Quote:
Revelation 21:22-27
New English Translation (NET)
22 Now I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God—the All-Powerful—and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, because the glory of God lights it up, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light and the kings of the earth will bring their grandeur into it. 25 Its gates will never be closed during the day (and there will be no night there). 26 They will bring the grandeur and the wealth of the nations into it, 27 but nothing ritually unclean will ever enter into it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or practices falsehood, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
Nothing unclean or impure enters heaven.
Many Sola Scriptura folks have affirmed that bad traits are left behind after death and before entering heaven. I agree with that! Do you agree?
Many Sola Scriptura folks have affirmed that bad traits are left behind after death and before entering heaven. I agree with that! Do you agree?
Yes, I absolutely agree. We've been cleansed here and declared righteous. Once we enter heaven all the old habits and desires are left behind. That's why your racist woman is still saved. By the way, I also believe (and the Bible teaches) that the old desires can be changed here.
While she may be a racist here, she won't be once she enters heaven.
OK, so she is not saved. She was born again, but turn away from God, therefore she lost her salvation. Is that correct? I ask because many claim salvation cannot be lost.
There is a lot of information on this topic on the numerous "can a person lost his/her salvation" threads.
Yes, I absolutely agree. We've been cleansed here and declared righteous. Once we enter heaven all the old habits and desires are left behind. That's why your racist woman is still saved. By the way, I also believe (and the Bible teaches) that the old desires can be changed here.
While she may be a racist here, she won't be once she enters heaven.
Yes, it has been pointed out several times that we will be like Christ in heaven. We will be pure, like everything else in heaven. Since our sins have been forgiven, they will not be counted against us. If there was such thing as purgatory, then it would be a place where our sins are counted against us, which goes against what the Bible teaches. Like you said, our sinful nature will be left behind, just like our physical bodies. When the Bible speaks about the resurrection, it talks about instantanuous transformation when we go from being corruptable to incorruptable in a blink of an eye. Same happens when we die. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him TODAY. He didn't say "I'll see you in paradise when you graduate from purgatory". No, TODAY.
Paul said you are either living on earth, or you are with the Lord. No purgatory.
Yes, I absolutely agree. We've been cleansed here and declared righteous. Once we enter heaven all the old habits and desires are left behind. That's why your racist woman is still saved. By the way, I also believe (and the Bible teaches) that the old desires can be changed here.
While she may be a racist here, she won't be once she enters heaven.
You are describing purgatory. Maybe, not using the same terminology as the CC, but the same principle. I am glad there is common ground.
Yes, it has been pointed out several times that we will be like Christ in heaven. We will be pure, like everything else in heaven. Since our sins have been forgiven, they will not be counted against us. If there was such thing as purgatory, then it would be a place where our sins are counted against us, which goes against what the Bible teaches. Like you said, our sinful nature will be left behind, just like our physical bodies. When the Bible speaks about the resurrection, it talks about instantanuous transformation when we go from being corruptable to incorruptable in a blink of an eye. Same happens when we die. Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be in paradise with Him TODAY. He didn't say "I'll see you in paradise when you graduate from purgatory". No, TODAY.
Paul said you are either living on earth, or you are with the Lord. No purgatory.
Same thing as purgatory. It is just matter of semantics.
You are describing purgatory. Maybe, not using the same terminology as the CC, but the same principle. I am glad there is common ground.
So your "purgatory" is an instant thing as what is being described by others as the changing. No punishment, no time remaining between this state of being and the heavenly state of being. You are saying that is your "purgatory"? I have never heard an RCC member describe it that way. When and why the change?
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