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Jesus has strength when We are weak as our desire are stronger for relief in the blessing of Christ ................ so when hard times are here again the we can see or expectation of faith grow and answers from Jesus bless will be there ................. Like a spiritual law We can be rich and have no need and if we ask for a blessing our need will not be from weakness and we will have to persevere harder for God blessing .............. But if we are poor and suffering and have need for Jesus blessing our expectation will be stronger in our weakness and if the conditions are there blessing can flow .......... If we are under developed in faith in God our sufferings may be heard but we still need to seek first the kingdom of heaven and may be sow a seed faith of charity into the ministries of souls for Jesus see as our weakness may not help us for the under develop Christian
Christ is still suffering? Really? What about, the quote: "it is finished."
It's quite confusing, Prots claim Catholics are crucifying Christ over and over again in the Mass, and here you say, he is still suffering.
Dear Gabriel,
Paul turned his fellow church member over to Satan (1 Cor 5:5), and his suffering is probably more in the realm of as you judge others so you shall be judged (2 Cor 12:7).
The body of Christ are those who follow Yeshua, and walk in his footsteps, and they do have the power to forgive sins (John 20:23), and in doing so, just like him, take on the sins of the offenders. I wouldn't suggest that they will forgive the unforgivable sin, because then they couldn't unload the sin they have just retained. You will know if the sin has been forgiven, if the sinner is healed. There is little difference between Christ and his church, except that they are expected to do greater things than he.(John 14:12) Sin and suffering are two heads of the same coin.
2 Corinthians 12:7 NAS A Thorn in the Flesh Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me-to keep me from exalting myself!
1 Corinthians 5:5 NAS I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
John 20:23 NAS "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."
John 14:12,"Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
If I'm barking up the wrong tree, it's only because your climbing it.
You are baffled aren't you?
I AM baffled that you should actually be carrying on a conversation in which you don't get to know anything about the people with whom you converse. It seems as if you read the first 6 words and then react: "oh, but the Church...."
I will be less baffled if you ever see fit to actually converse, that is think about what the other person is actually saying and respond accordingly.
Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Col 1:24)
This passage lays bare to the dishonesty of the “sufficiency” argument because there are, in fact, two types of sufficiency, not one, as the “reformers” dishonestly proposed.
The first is “Material” Sufficiency. That is, is there sufficient material to accomplish the job? In this case, the question would be, did Christ’s ”finished” work secure the graces needed for the salvation of every? man, woman and child on earth? The answer, of course, is yes.
Earlier I wrote that the question is not in material sufficiency. The question is in “practical” sufficiency. Practical, as in ”practice”.
Example:
Does a Doctor have the material knowledge to do his craft? Of course! But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to exercise his medical “practice” correctly.? To do so is “malpractice”
When Christ foretold His suffering and death, He instituted a “Covenant” in His blood. (Matthew 26:28). A covenant is a binding agreement. It binds BOTH sides to the terms of the covenant.
What is lacking in the sufferings of Christ, is YOUR side of the Covenant.
Even if you were to argue that all you must do is “confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart”, you would STILL be refuting practical sufficiency because you areacknowledging that YOU have to do something. However, in (Col 1:24), Paul expressly proposes SUFFERING as his part.
Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Col 1:24)
This passage lays bare to the dishonesty of the “sufficiency” argument because there are, in fact, two types of sufficiency, not one, as the “reformers” dishonestly proposed.
The first is “Material” Sufficiency. That is, is there sufficient material to accomplish the job? In this case, the question would be, did Christ’s ”finished” work secure the graces needed for the salvation of every? man, woman and child on earth? The answer, of course, is yes.
Earlier I wrote that the question is not in material sufficiency. The question is in “practical” sufficiency. Practical, as in ”practice”.
Example:
Does a Doctor have the material knowledge to do his craft? Of course! But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to exercise his medical “practice” correctly.? To do so is “malpractice”
When Christ foretold His suffering and death, He instituted a “Covenant” in His blood. (Matthew 26:28). A covenant is a binding agreement. It binds BOTH sides to the terms of the covenant.
What is lacking in the sufferings of Christ, is YOUR side of the Covenant.
Even if you were to argue that all you must do is “confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart”, you would STILL be refuting practical sufficiency because you areacknowledging that YOU have to do something. However, in (Col 1:24), Paul expressly proposes SUFFERING as his part.
As I said, it is nothing to build convoluted doctrines on, but that's what professional clergy is for isn't it? What did Paul say? Oh yes: "9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,…"
Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Col 1:24)
This passage lays bare to the dishonesty of the “sufficiency” argument because there are, in fact, two types of sufficiency, not one, as the “reformers” dishonestly proposed.
The first is “Material” Sufficiency. That is, is there sufficient material to accomplish the job? In this case, the question would be, did Christ’s ”finished” work secure the graces needed for the salvation of every? man, woman and child on earth? The answer, of course, is yes.
Earlier I wrote that the question is not in material sufficiency. The question is in “practical” sufficiency. Practical, as in ”practice”.
Example:
Does a Doctor have the material knowledge to do his craft? Of course! But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to exercise his medical “practice” correctly.? To do so is “malpractice”
When Christ foretold His suffering and death, He instituted a “Covenant” in His blood. (Matthew 26:28). A covenant is a binding agreement. It binds BOTH sides to the terms of the covenant.
What is lacking in the sufferings of Christ, is YOUR side of the Covenant.
Even if you were to argue that all you must do is “confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart”, you would STILL be refuting practical sufficiency because you areacknowledging that YOU have to do something. However, in (Col 1:24), Paul expressly proposes SUFFERING as his part.
Theological malpractice, shall we pay an annual sum for pain and suffering as a tribute or new testament?
Or is it age-abiding to illustrate how faithful you are, enduring to the end of this life, which is nonsensical?
Theological malpractice, shall we pay an annual sum for pain and suffering as a tribute or new testament? Or is it age-abiding to illustrate how faithful you are, enduring to the end of this life, which is nonsensical?
No Jerwade, if you like your annual sum ... you can keep that sum!
As I said, it is nothing to build convoluted doctrines on, but that's what professional clergy is for isn't it? What did Paul say? Oh yes: "9But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless. 10Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,…"
Paul said a lot of things, Nate. It is easy to fill in any disagreement one might have by wrongly sticking Scripture in it's place.
When Scripture is used in such a fashion, it is abused.
Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (Col 1:24)
This passage lays bare to the dishonesty of the “sufficiency” argument because there are, in fact, two types of sufficiency, not one, as the “reformers” dishonestly proposed.
The first is “Material” Sufficiency. That is, is there sufficient material to accomplish the job? In this case, the question would be, did Christ’s ”finished” work secure the graces needed for the salvation of every? man, woman and child on earth? The answer, of course, is yes.
Earlier I wrote that the question is not in material sufficiency. The question is in “practical” sufficiency. Practical, as in ”practice”.
Example:
Does a Doctor have the material knowledge to do his craft? Of course! But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have to exercise his medical “practice” correctly.? To do so is “malpractice”
When Christ foretold His suffering and death, He instituted a “Covenant” in His blood. (Matthew 26:28). A covenant is a binding agreement. It binds BOTH sides to the terms of the covenant.
What is lacking in the sufferings of Christ, is YOUR side of the Covenant.
Even if you were to argue that all you must do is “confess with your mouth, and believe in your heart”, you would STILL be refuting practical sufficiency because you areacknowledging that YOU have to do something. However, in (Col 1:24), Paul expressly proposes SUFFERING as his part.
There is no support for this practical sufficiency you speak of.
I believe it's simply a certain amount of affliction Christ must suffer through the church (His body) before the end of the age.
Sometimes the KJV, NKJV and some of the older translations are difficult to understand because the colloquial language style is no longer familiar to most people. Still, the longevity of the Bible makes Bible 'Translations' necessary, in order to render the text into a language or style that is common to the audience. The 'Message" version amplifies what Paul was saying from his prison cell:
Col. 1:24-25 [Message] "I want you to know how glad I am that it’s me sitting here in this jail and not you. There’s a lot of suffering to be entered into in this world—the kind of suffering Christ takes on. I welcome the chance to take my share in the church’s part of that suffering. When I became a servant in this church, I experienced this suffering as a sheer gift, God’s way of helping me serve you, laying out the whole truth."
[New Living Translation] - "24 I am glad when I suffer for you in my body, for I am participating in the sufferings of Christ that continue for his body, the church. 25 God has given me the responsibility of serving his church by proclaiming his entire message to you."
[Amplified Bible] - "24 [Even] now I rejoice in the midst of my sufferings on your behalf. And in my own person I am making up whatever is still lacking and remains to be completed on our part] of Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of His body, which is the church. 25 In it I became a minister in accordance with the divine stewardship which was entrusted to me for you [as its object and for your benefit], to make the Word of God fully known [among you]—
[New American Standard] - "24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. 25 Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,
Note: There is a major difference between a 'translation' and an 'interpretation'. A 'Translation' attempts to translate the words/context of the original. An 'Interpretation' often injects the interpreters bias or opinion of what the author meant.
The Geneva Bible Commentary further clarifies the text:
1:24 -- The afflictions of the Church are said to be Christs afflictions, by reason of that fellowship and knitting together that the body and the head have with one another. And this is not because there is any more need to have the Church redeemed, but because Christ shows his power in the daily weakness of his own, and that for the comfort of the whole body.
1:25 -- He [Paul] brings another proof of his apostleship, that is, that God is the author of it, by whom also he was appointed especially as apostle for the Gentiles, to the end that by this means, that same might be fulfilled by him, which the Prophets foretold concerning the calling of the Gentiles.
i am sorry I understand most adaptions of bibles but please do not quote a bible that takes christ name out. in the message bible it states
I can do all things thru the one that strengthens me.
the one what? I threw the message bible i had bought out after that.
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never quote the message that is garbage
