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The Bible is the written word of men, according to their perceptions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog
If it is perceptions then it cannot be God breathed. If it is God breathed then it cannot be perceptions.
2 Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I choose to believe God and can only do that by what he has breathed out in His Holy Scriptures.
It is perceptions because that is how we organize and form our interpretations of reality. Those who received the inspirations from God had to interpret them using whatever knowledge and beliefs they had about God to begin with. It was NOT dictation. Their interpretations of their inspirations were supposed to be reinterpreted as our knowledge advanced . . . not accepted as rote . . . thereby retaining their ancient ignorance.
If it is perceptions then it cannot be God breathed. If it is God breathed then it cannot be perceptions.
2 Tim 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
I choose to believe God and can only do that by what he has breathed out in His Holy Scriptures.
"God breathed" is a literal translation of a Greek word that means "inspired." Guess what? Inspired means breathed in. Now, we and the Greeks realize that it doesn't mean whispered or dictated, but in some manner impelled. So the fundamentalists grab onto this literal translation and try to make it support their ridiculous ideas of plenary inspiration and inerrancy in a desperate effort to latch onto some authority they can understand rather than what was promised in the very book they extol. Why don't they believe that the Spirit is able to guide them into all truth? Essentially because they don't know how to approach the Spirit with an open mind and heart to that guidance. They want to push their own agenda quite often at the expense of the Spirit.
"God breathed" is a literal translation of a Greek word that means "inspired." Guess what? Inspired means breathed in. Now, we and the Greeks realize that it doesn't mean whispered or dictated, but in some manner impelled. So the fundamentalists grab onto this literal translation and try to make it support their ridiculous ideas of plenary inspiration and inerrancy in a desperate effort to latch onto some authority they can understand rather than what was promised in the very book they extol. Why don't they believe that the Spirit is able to guide them into all truth? Essentially because they don't know how to approach the Spirit with an open mind and heart to that guidance. They want to push their own agenda quite often at the expense of the Spirit.
Very excellent point, nate. Well said! I wish more people understood the New Covenant and the need to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) to The truth that God has "written in our hearts."
It is perceptions because that is how we organize and form our interpretations of reality. Those who received the inspirations from God had to interpret them using whatever knowledge and beliefs they had about God to begin with. It was NOT dictation. Their interpretations of their inspirations were supposed to be reinterpreted as our knowledge advanced . . . not accepted as rote . . . thereby retaining their ancient ignorance.
Thank you MysticPhD. This is what I have been trying to get you to record in a single post.
1) You believe mans will was involved by him having to interpret using his own knowledge.
2) You believe it was just the man inspired, not the words (THE ACTUAL SCRIPTURE!).
3) You believe the word should be reinterpreted as our knowledge advance.
4) You believe the writers were ignorant.
Very excellent point, nate. Well said! I wish more people understood the New Covenant and the need to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) to The truth that God has "written in our hearts."
Now tell me, if the Apostles did have God's truth written in their hearts, why would they have to use perceptions? If the truth is written in your heart would you not be able to write exactly every word of it? Word for word?
How much can you write?
You can't add anything at all to the truth that has already been delivered.
"God breathed" is a literal translation of a Greek word that means "inspired." Guess what? Inspired means breathed in. Now, we and the Greeks realize that it doesn't mean whispered or dictated, but in some manner impelled. So the fundamentalists grab onto this literal translation and try to make it support their ridiculous ideas of plenary inspiration and inerrancy in a desperate effort to latch onto some authority they can understand rather than what was promised in the very book they extol. Why don't they believe that the Spirit is able to guide them into all truth? Essentially because they don't know how to approach the Spirit with an open mind and heart to that guidance. They want to push their own agenda quite often at the expense of the Spirit.
What was inspired? Scripture (words) or merely a few men to write? The Bible says the words were inspired.
I do believe that the Spirit is able to guide me into all truth. I can open it and read it any time I want.
It is perceptions because that is how we organize and form our interpretations of reality. Those who received the inspirations from God had to interpret them using whatever knowledge and beliefs they had about God to begin with. It was NOT dictation. Their interpretations of their inspirations were supposed to be reinterpreted as our knowledge advanced . . . not accepted as rote . . . thereby retaining their ancient ignorance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog
Thank you MysticPhD. This is what I have been trying to get you to record in a single post.
1) You believe mans will was involved by him having to interpret using his own knowledge.
2) You believe it was just the man inspired, not the words (THE ACTUAL SCRIPTURE!).
3) You believe the word should be reinterpreted as our knowledge advance.
4) You believe the writers were ignorant.
All this is nice to know.
Glad to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Very excellent point, nate. Well said! I wish more people understood the New Covenant and the need to follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit (Comforter) to The truth that God has "written in our hearts."
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog
Now tell me, if the Apostles did have God's truth written in their hearts, why would they have to use perceptions? If the truth is written in your heart would you not be able to write exactly every word of it? Word for word?
But that is the point of the New Covenant. We don't need anyone to teach us and we are NOT to rely on words "written in ink" because the "letter killeth . . .but the Spirit giveth life." You must not believe "Christ abides with us" as the "Living Word of God" under the New Covenant. You do not trust what is in your heart so you rely on the "precepts and doctrines of men" created from the words "written in ink." Sad. It is particularly troubling because we know that everything that Jesus taught is NOT written anywhere and much of what is written was "milk" for carnal minds. Rely on your heart under the guidance of the Comforter, brother. Christ lives and abides with us.
Hebrews 8:7-11 King James Version (KJV)
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 2:27 (King James Version)
27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.
2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)
2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-24-2014 at 02:56 PM..
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Yes when that day comes the New Covenant God will make with Israel and Judah.
God will make this Covenant after those days! Do you know what day's He is speaking of? They have not come yet.
We are not Israel or Judah.
Also note to whom this is written. Hebrews are not Gentiles.
Notice that something made only with the Hebrews is being replaced and it is obvious it is again only with the Hebrews.
Last edited by Rightly Divided; 04-24-2014 at 04:09 PM..
Yes when that day comes the New Covenant God will make with Israel and Judah.
God will make this Covenant after those days! Do you know what day's He is speaking of? They have not come yet.
We are not Israel or Judah.
Also note to whom this is written. Hebrews are not Gentiles.
Notice that something made only with the Hebrews is being replaced and it is obvious it is again only with the Hebrews.
It is quite clear that the writer is talking about the new covenant.
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. BUT NOW in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
What was inspired? Scripture (words) or merely a few men to write? The Bible says the words were inspired.
I do believe that the Spirit is able to guide me into all truth. I can open it and read it any time I want.
Can you call the Bible holy? Can you?
The Bible is not something to be worshipped or even venerated.
So, basically you limit the way the Spirit can operate to exegesis of the Bible? Men were inspired to write according to their light.
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It is particularly troubling because we know that everything that Jesus taught is NOT written anywhere and much of what is written was "milk" for carnal minds. Rely on your heart under the guidance of the Comforter, brother. Christ lives and abides with us.
