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Pope Francis' largely undeserved reputation for being an open-minded pope is catching up with him again: A group of 26 Italian women have written a joint letter to the pope, explaining that they are in love with priests and monks and begging Francis to overturn the 1,000-year-old requirement for priestly celibacy. Claiming to have "strong love that is rooted in the Lord," the women wrote that "in most cases, despite all efforts to renounce it, one cannot manage to give up such a solid and beautiful bond."
Pope Francis' largely undeserved reputation for being an open-minded pope is catching up with him again: A group of 26 Italian women have written a joint letter to the pope, explaining that they are in love with priests and monks and begging Francis to overturn the 1,000-year-old requirement for priestly celibacy. Claiming to have "strong love that is rooted in the Lord," the women wrote that "in most cases, despite all efforts to renounce it, one cannot manage to give up such a solid and beautiful bond."
if the Pope did that, He would be more Biblical in their teachings.
It is good for a Pastor to be married to one wife as the Bible states. It is God's design that a man be with a woman in marriage, even Pastors. This could help the man in many ways spiritually as to keep them from unbridled lusts. There are cases where God calls a man to celibacy like Paul but He would give them the gift to endure it. It's not a natural or healthy thing for most men to go through life in a celibate state. It's not good for Man to be alone the Bible says.
if the Pope did that, He would be more Biblical in their teachings.
It is good for a Pastor to be married to one wife as the Bible states. It is God's design that a man be with a woman in marriage, even Pastors. This could help the man in many ways spiritually as to keep them from unbridled lusts. There are cases where God calls a man to celibacy like Paul but He would give them the gift to endure it. It's not a natural or healthy thing for most men to go through life in a celibate state. It's not good for Man to be alone the Bible says.
The celibacy rule has no relationship to the bible. Paul preached celibacy, but it was optional.
Jesus encouraged celibacy:
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Matthew 19:27-30
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Disciples’ Reward
27 Then Peter said to Him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?” 28 And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on [a]His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother [b]or children or farms for My name’s sake, will receive [c]many times as much, and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last; and the last, first.
In any event celibacy in the CC is optional. If a man wants to get married he could enter the Anglican Church which is nearly Catholic.
In addition there are exceptions: A priest that transfers from the Anglican Church to the CC can remain married------I know quite a few that have done this.
Celibacy was put in place for many reasons, perhaps because priests were passing church property and monies as inheritance to their children. No different than what the protestant leaders of mega-churches do nowadays.
Lastly----I say this with respect to you. Most evangelicals ignore the history of Christianity and simply transport the bible to the 21st century while ignoring everything else in between. There were many devout pious Christians in the first centuries AD that wanted to be celibate like Jesus. Some even considered self castration to avoid temptation for sex.
There is a reason for everything in the CC, these things do not happen in a vacuum.
Nevertheless, I hope the celibacy rule is abolished. However, the CC is heavily rooted in tradition and tradition is hard to give up. Imagine telling the New York Yankees they have to give up their pinstripe uniforms.
if the Pope did that, He would be more Biblical in their teachings.
No, he would be less biblical. Of course, since the Bible is the Catholic Church's own book (because who did you think put it together? You personally? A committee at your church? Your pastor's seminary class? Or did you never think about this?), it is not surprising that non-Catholics really don't get the Bible. This may explain why their Bibles have books ripped out of them -- but that's for another thread...
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It is good for a Pastor to be married to one wife as the Bible states.
No, what Paul said is that he would have preferred for all to be unmarried as he himself was. However, he recognized that some people simply could not control themselves, and in that case he did not forbid marriage. However, early Christians had an absolute disgust at the idea of multiple marriages, and in 1 Tim 3 Paul is saying that those who remarry after being widowed are deserving of reproach, and are unworthy to be Christian pastors. Do you accept this teaching? And do you accept the more explicit teaching that those who divorce their spouses and marry a second time are committing adultery? I didn't thinks so -- but here you are lecturing about what "the Bible states"...
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It is God's design that a man be with a woman in marriage, even Pastors.
Then why didn't Jesus, our perfect pattern, have a wife? And what did Jesus -- who was God incarnate -- mean when he engages in the following dialogue with his disciples in Matt 19:10-12
"The disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry." But he said to them, "Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it."
Do you think that you are wiser and better informed about "God's design" than Jesus Christ was?????
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There are cases where God calls a man to celibacy like Paul but He would give them the gift to endure it.
Bingo!!!!! You finally figure it out. No one is forced to become a priest. One should become a priest only because he has been called by God to that life. And what is the nature of that life, and its reward? "Peter began to say to him, "Lo, we have left everything and followed you." Jesus said, "Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or lands, for my sake and for the gospel, who will not receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions, and in the age to come eternal life. " (Mark 10:28-30)
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It's not a natural or healthy thing for most men to go through life in a celibate state.
Which is why "most men" are not -- doh!!!! --- called to be priests.
This entire argument is silly, because Paul doesn't forbid clerical marriages. He spells it out pretty specifically in 1 Timothy 3:
1Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of fulla respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
8In the same way, deaconsb are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11In the same way, the womenc are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well. 13Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.
This entire argument is silly, because Paul doesn't forbid clerical marriages.
True. He also doesn't forbid clerical celibacy, does he?
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He spells it out pretty specifically in 1 Timothy 3:
1Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife,
This is a really bad translation. The Greek is mias gynaikos andra, with mias and gynaikos both being feminine singular genitives, so that mias modifies gynaikos and not andra. The phrase rendered literally is "of-one-wife husband", or to put it into more natural English, "the husband of one wife". There is nothing there about being "faithful", which would have been regarded simply as a given; instead, there is a very clear statement that being married twice is unacceptable for anyone who aspires to be an episkopos, because the episkopos should be the husband of only one woman.
True. He also doesn't forbid clerical celibacy, does he?
This is a really bad translation. The Greek is mias gynaikos andra, with mias and gynaikos both being feminine singular genitives, so that mias modifies gynaikos and not andra. The phrase rendered literally is "of-one-wife husband", or to put it into more natural English, "the husband of one wife". There is nothing there about being "faithful", which would have been regarded simply as a given; instead, there is a very clear statement that being married twice is unacceptable for anyone who aspires to be an episkopos, because the episkopos should be the husband of only one woman.
Thanks for the pedantry, but the import is clear nevertheless.
Its talked about how man's traditions make the word of God to no effect. I'm not Catholic nor any other denomination, but I'll be rooting for the Pope get rid of the celibacy thing.
Thanks for the pedantry, but the import is clear nevertheless.
If I don't thank you in turn for your petulant, snotty rudeness, I think you will understand. It is odd that you think wanting to know what Paul actually said is mere "pedantry"; for my part, I would not call looking at the actual words of scripture to be "pedantry", but I would call regarding the absurd "translation" you provided as accurate, reliable, and expressive of Paul's actual thought to be pitiful ignorance. The "import" of Paul's actual words is, in fact, clear, but you are still missing it: while Paul tolerates having religious leaders who are married, they cannot have been married more than once, and he would prefer that they not be married at all.
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