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I think English is probably one of the worst languages for the number of homonyms, dual meanings, etc. Greek/Hebrew - not as much. Sure there is some.
But the point made in the study is if you look at every usage of the word 'sheol' - either translated grave or 'hell' - neither of them describe a place of eternal flames.
The main idea of a literal burning hellfire - in relation to the word hades - comes from the parable of the rich man in Luke 16. However there are problems if you try to treat that parable as a literal description of a fiery afterlife. We have had whole threads on just Luke 16 in the past if you are interested.
Also another good link on that one, which explains what Luke 16 is about: Lazarus and the Rich Man
There are other views as well, which are much more plausible than a rich man having a conversation while being set on fire and asking for a single drop of water while those in Abraham's Bosom (the alleged good side of "hell") watch. If you study the symbols in the parable the meaning becomes clearer.
I'll take a look at the link!
Some of the points you brought up are also brought up in a few the articles I linked.
Again, if you're interested.
And I must admit, the article you hyperlinked I found difficult to read. Even if I agree with an author, I can hardly stand when they saturate their writing with arrogance. An author who is completely certain of the argument does not need to state that their opponents are "WRONG." Have some professionalism, please. It only highlights the fact that their convictions are either in the minority, and that the majority of Pastors and Theologians do not agree, or are too close-minded to discuss their findings in a scholarly manner.
I don't mean to offend - it is my little rant, and the reason I no longer read several magazines.
Oh! And I completely agree with your first statement!
twin, I'm very sorry there is a forest fire near you - it is a very serious thing and I hope you are fine.
However all forest fires eventually burn out. To try to compare that to some sort of endless torment is also intellectually insulting. Why is it that anything less than endless torment is "nothing to worry about"? I never said that but that is what you imply.
And btw, the picture of the peaceful park is a picture of Gehenna today, AFAIK, and according to the source I got it from. Haven't been there myself but maybe someday I will go. (I read it again after I posted and I'm sure you're laughing at that on the inside...)
well today, the winds apparently shifted and my town is smoke filled and is hard to breath for those who have respiratory issues.
The part of being "intellectually insulting" from earlier posts that is said is because Jesus used some of the same "metaphor" style of speech concerning heaven \ God and the joys of associated with.
Yet there aren't any howls over that .... so please, don't go out of your way to discredit one over the other using that mentality.
Some of the points you brought up are also brought up in a few the articles I linked.
Again, if you're interested.
And I must admit, the article you hyperlinked I found difficult to read. Even if I agree with an author, I can hardly stand when they saturate their writing with arrogance. An author who is completely certain of the argument does not need to state that their opponents are "WRONG." Have some professionalism, please. It only highlights the fact that their convictions are either in the minority, and that the majority of Pastors and Theologians do not agree, or are too close-minded to discuss their findings in a scholarly manner.
I don't mean to offend - it is my little rant, and the reason I no longer read several magazines.
I admit Ray Smith's "style" is not easy to read for everyone. However the information is there if you are interested. It kindof blew me away when I first came upon it (and others work as well). The study on Luke 16 is really interesting, and I have seen others come to the same conclusion (Hint: its about Israel, the Jews, and the Gentiles). It goes much deeper than the simple literal absurdity of the "rich guy burns and asks for a drop of water while having a conversation across the chasm" viewpoint.
I am doing no such thing. Obviously there are consequences for sin. Eternal torture just doesn't happen to be one of them.
What is the consequence? Eusebius said it is much like the life we live now, and I can tell you most people are so happy with their lives that they wish they were immortal. The 'consequence' of sin is more like a reward.
Quote:
The picture of the garbage dump is what the valley of Hinnom - Gehenna - might have looked like in that day.
The picture of the peaceful park is what it actually does look like today. I don't know why you don't believe me. Anyone can go research this for themselves. You can even travel to Gehenna if you want. Its in Jerusalem.
Straw man argument. I never said there isn't' a place with that name.
When Jesus said "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him", He did NOT mean God will dump your body in a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem.
Straw man argument. I never said there isn't' a place with that name.
When Jesus said "But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him", He did NOT mean God will dump your body in a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem.
Then why did Jesus reference that place specifically by name?
What is the consequence? Eusebius said it is much like the life we live now, and I can tell you most people are so happy with their lives that they wish they were immortal. The 'consequence' of sin is more like a reward.
It depends on what the sin is. There are always consequences. We reap what we sow. If you think the consequence of sin is more like a 'reward', then you have not seen the consequence yet.
It depends on what the sin is. There are always consequences. We reap what we sow.
Lets hear the worst case scenario.
If you think the consequence of sin is more like a 'reward', then you have not seen the consequence yet.[/quote]Read again. I said Eusebius idea of it sounds more like a reward than anything else. I did not say I agree with it.
If you think the consequence of sin is more like a 'reward', then you have not seen the consequence yet. Read again. I said Eusebius idea of it sounds more like a reward than anything else. I did not say I agree with it.
Hi Finn,
I would never suggest being cast into a furnace of fire like the Israelites were for 400 years in Egypt would be a reward. Would you? I don't think you would either. It is chastening. It is aionion kolasin (eonian chastening) or chastening pertaining to that 1000 year long eon. I wouldn't call it a walk in the park.
Also Gehenna is a park today to the south of Jerusalem. During the 1000 years reign of Christ it will be turned into a trash dump. There will be worms in that trash dump and fires. What is so hard to understand about that? And no one will be tormented in Gehenna. Only dead bodies will be cast into it.
You see, Finn, God was against the Israelites torturing their children in fire to Molech in the valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) so why would He do that which He was against others doing?
There are many examples in the bible - like Eusebius said, Israel being thrown into the (metaphorical) furnace of fire.
- the flood
- plagues
- wars
etc.
These are not light consequences.
Ultimately each of us will have to account for what we did and did not do. It will not be pleasant having the full consequences of our actions exposed.
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